Latest News: Forums Technical Weight of outboard bracket – lightweight option?

This topic contains 21 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  davdor7038 3 years, 6 months ago.

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 22 total)
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  • #20751

    suffolktim
    Participant

    Hey guys, well – finally got my first wayfarer, and I am in love! I will post pics of it soon, but I do have a question re outboard brackets which I was hoping to get some help on.

    So I will be cruising the boat (early 70’s Mk1 GRP), and I need to pick up an outboard bracket and outboard. I notice lots of people discussing it on here, but it strikes me that the actual brackets that the outboard sits on is quite heavy in itself?

    Are there any specifically lightweight outboard brackets, or can anyone help with a good lightish one?

    I am looking at a 3.5hp mariner, which is 17kg in weight, and I am trying not to put more weight than I need to over the transom than I have to!

     

    Hope someone can help! I cant wait to get out there with it and do some exploring!

     

    Cheers!!

    #20756

    john1162
    Participant

    Wow 3.5hp mariner.  A good engine but as you say a bit weighty. There are light weight brackets out there but they are not as strong as is needed to mount your mariner on. I have a stainless steel one that is suitable for my Yamaha 2hp engine but they tend to vibrate quite  lot and would not be any good for your heavy outboard.

    The absolute best place to get all the information on anything Wayfarer is at the Cruising Conference in March.  As a new owner it is an event not to be missed. Contact Jeremy Norman at [email protected] for more information.

    #20771

    Swiebertje
    Participant

    An outboard should be the least of your worries. Over the past two years I have took mine along to the Loch Dergh rally only, and guess what, I didn’t use it at all. It was just a big weighty we needed to compensate by sitting further forward than usual. And still the transom dragged through the water, slowing us down. Also the propeller kept hitting things it shouldn’t

    A Wayfarer is a very manoeuvrable boat and I can bring here to a full stop exactly where I want it in almost any harbour, dock or box. In strong and light winds. Take your time by slowing down, take the jib away, make a plan and make sure the crew knows what you are planning. It is fun to practise those manoeuvres and they will earn you a lot of respect when you master them. I have seen more docking manoeuvres fail due to the use of an engine (too much power, too high speed, facing backward to control the engine and not paying attention to what was happening in front, etc, etc.).

    In very light winds one paddles, it s a good exercise! Other than that, one only carries an engine for others. Have you noticed that all Wayfarers carry a sturdy tow rope, just in case someone brings an engine?

    #20772

    suffolktim
    Participant

    Hey guys – thank you both for your replies – much appreciated. I should probably explain a little more – whilst I am excited about sailing my new boat, and this wil be its primary use, I will also be using it with the outboard at times, even without the mast – for a very specific reason! I am a professional archaeologist, and carry out aeril photography at work on our sites using cameras suspended from kites. I will be looking to do some kite photography from the wayfarer, and whilst people have done this with sails up, it will take some more sailing experience before I even attempt that!

    I have been looking at the tide streams in the river Orwell, where it will predominantly be used, and they are not too strong – but I will be looking to use it on other estuaries/rivers too, where the tides are much stronger. I was considering a 2 stroke engine, to allow more weight for similar power, but realise one of these would need to be second hand.

    I would appreciate any further advice, and re the initial question, whilst I still do not know the weight of a removable outboard bracket, I notice that they are often made of aluminium rather than stainless, as I had originally thought.

    Re the kite photography – here are a few aerial shots I took over the water on the weekend. They were taken at my new club.

     

    Cheers!

    Tim

     photo club 1 small_zpskzstkiws.jpg

     photo club 2 small_zpsuvuoatax.jpg

    #20774

    john1162
    Participant

    Looks like the Royal Harwich to me.  I have sailed from there many times.  A great place to sail from.

    There are threads on this website about which outboard to use.  If I were to replace my Yamaha 2A I would go for the Suzuki 2.2 as it is the lightest one around and it has plenty of power for the Wayfarer. There is no reverse but there is a neutral.  You have to turn the engine through 180 degrees for reverse.

    As for having an outboard.  Yes, I can tack my way up a creek not much wider than the length of my boat and do so quite often but there are times when I am glad I have an outboard with me.

    #20779

    waypad
    Participant

    Hi Tim,
    I use a 4hp yammha, not out of choice but simply because I already have one which I used on my fishing punt. The brackets and engine mount are stainless which I fabricated [welded] myself and the whole assembly has
    been a joy to use. The mount slides off for racing and what is left is
    hardly worth worrying about weight wise. Penzance is a difficult harbour to negotiate sometimes especially when those “skidoo” things are fooling about,
    so the engine comes in handy on these occasions.
    Pete [Redskys W7059 mk2

    #20782

    suffolktim
    Participant

    Hi there, thanks again for all of your replies. I am seriously considering my options re which motor to get, and have been using the search facility here to do that.

    I notice several people in my club have strenghthened the transom and have mounted their outboards on that. I can see that it may well interfere if you were trying to motor and sail together, but does anyone else have much experience of doing this?

     

    Cheers!

     

    Tim

    #20785

    Dave Barker
    Keymaster

    Hi Tim,

    I haven’t actually collected any data but would guess that the single most widely fitted outboard bracket on UK Wayfarers is the one that was sold by Boats ‘n’ Bits in Norwich, (until it, apparently, closed). There’s a plate permanently attached to the transom and a “leg” which slides into the plate when using the outboard. The weight of the bracket is relatively insignificant compared to that of the engine itself.

    For what it’s worth I would echo John’s endorsement of the Suzuki 4-stroke, which seems the nearest thing to an ideal Wayfarer outboard currently available.

    Fixing the engine directly to the transom isn’t really a good solution, especially if you occasionally want to sail your boat! Then you’ll want to keep the motor and mainsheet well apart, which the leg-type bracket achieves nicely.

    I love the kite photos! Have you tried flying a drone from your boat for aerial photos?

    #20786

    suffolktim
    Participant

    Hey, thanks for your reply – I held one of the removable brackets in my hand today, and it must have been at least three kilos. It was at seamark nunn in felixstowe, and it looked bigger than the ones ive seen on wayfarers in the dinghy park. It seemed quite crude, with an cast aluminium shoe, but just painted/plastic coated steel main bar and plates?

    I am tempted to get a local steel worker to fabricate one for me just out of aluminium, and have it in one piece, and mount it perminantly….So just the aluminium back plate, a hollow square aluminium tube for the main shaft, and another aluminium front plate with wood mounted on it. It would bolt on, and stay bolted on. It would definately be much lighter in weight.

    Re the engine, I have been offered a 1996 2 stroke 3.5hp mariner from a dealer. 13kg weight, and a bit more power. What do you think? Cheers, Tim

    #20787

    Dave Barker
    Keymaster

    I’m sure you could have a much lighter one-piece aluminium bracket fabricated, although a possible compromise would be a two-piece custom bracket – more saleable in future (and sailable now – couldn’t resist). A custom built bracket might be fairly pricey, but weight seems to be more important to you than cost.

    Personally I would stick with 4-stroke for fuel economy, quiet running, low(er) odour exhaust and simplicity (no mixing), but I know you could come up with a similar list of advantages for 2-stroke. Weight for the Suzuki would be very similar (13.5kg).

    Incidentally I have a heavy (c.17kg) Yamaha 2.5 on a 2-part bracket. It runs smoothly, quietly and economically, and when sailing – outboard raised on bracket – we seem to keep up with others.

    Perhaps this was the bracket you looked at (below)? We had this type on a previous boat – the retaining screw (wingnut) tended to corrode and bind, but otherwise it was OK. The pad (black plastic, cellular) would be very easy to replace, and this would be a simple way to tweak the height. (It’s tricky to find the ideal height for a new bracket to ensure that when the engine is tilted it won’t snag the transom, yet when in use the prop will be properly submerged. Easiest to try, measure & copy from another Wayfarer.)

     

    Mounting bracket port or starboard? Personal preference – do you want easy access to the key controls or is it better to have the throttle arm where you won’t snag it? Sometimes the internal structure of the rear tank will make the decision an easy one.

    #20789

    Swiebertje
    Participant
    #20790

    suffolktim
    Participant

    Hi guys, well – thanks for your replies! Things have moved on, and i’ve managed to take some measurements of one of the ones that you pictured Dave, and having drawings backs up my measurements that I took….so thank you Swiebertje for that! – I wasn’t expecting that, and it goes to show what a great resource forums are!

    I took my rough measurements to a friend who runs an engineering company today, and not only is he happy to copy the bracket, but he is also happy to do it completely in stainless, at a really good price! He is going to use 30mm hollow box for the main arm, and stainless plate for the front and back plates. I have told him not to bother constructing a shoe for the transom, as for a start the wing nut normally seems to just corrode, two, I dont see that I will ever have a real need to take it off, and three, I know its minimal, but it will again cut down on weight!

    Guess what the overall weight of the bracket is? After calculations, it will weight bang on one kilo! I am going to go for a piece of ply rather than the ugly plastic pad that some seem to come with, so that will have a weight too, but its still a lot lighter than the ones I’ve found so far. k

    Very happy, and now I just need to work out the right engine to sit on it!

    Cheers guys!

    #20791

    suffolktim
    Participant

    The bracket will be the same as below, although I will not use such a thick piece of ply, and obviously the bracket will all be stainless.

     photo brack_zps5xleo8jj.jpg

    #20793

    Swiebertje
    Participant

    The ply I used (36 mm) is actually 2 pieces of 18 mm (3/4″) glued together. Notice the cut-outs for the wing bolts. With a padlock through the bolt wings it is impossible to get the motor off the ply piece.  I made them with a hole saw and a chisel.

    Because my bracket is removable, I also made wire between de padlock and the transom. But I guess most thieves do not realise the bracket is removable. (A clever thieve does not steal an outboard, a clever thieve goes for at least ten million).

    BTW, I lost the small wing bolt that secures the bracket on first use and I never replaced it. Once wedged in you need some force to bump the bracket out again. A rubber hammer saves you from bruising the palm of you hand.

    Do make the bracket long enough so the rudder clears the propeller. It turns out that it is far more comfortable and easy to fix the engine and steer with the boats rudder.  Also it has a long helm and usually a joy stick.

    Note the drawing shows an angle between the transom and the motor mount. This is intentional. It creates a little lift and prevents the transom from digging in at full throttle. I don’t know the exact angle but the angle in the drawing was copied from the actual BnB bracket.

     

    #20844

    suffolktim
    Participant

    Hey guys – Ive been considering at length exactly what I will be doing with the wayfarer, and as I will be taking it around to the deben (strong tide races at the mouth) and the alde (same issue), and other local rivers with a fair tide race, I have decided that a 3.5hp is in order…just for a bit of extra backup power.

    I have been trying hard to find a 2 stroke thats in good condition, and not too old (I realise it will be at least 10 years old!). I have been struggling to find one that fits the bill (either too old, or not that clean) and I am coming around very much to a 3.5 mariner 4 stroke. My reasoning is:

    It weighs 17kg. The bracket being fabricated will weigh no more than 2kg, including bolts and wood pad for engine, wood pad inside and outside of transom.

    This is still nearly 2kg lighter than the removable ”boats and bits” bracket, which weighs 4kg including bolts. This means my all up weight will be 19kg (minus fuel and oil). A honda 2.3 weighs 13kg, plus 4kg for most common bracket makes 17kg (minus fuel and oil) – so I am only 2kg heavier than the most common setup people seem to use.

     

    Lots of numbers there, and not the best explaination, but does anyone think that I have a point, or is it also down to honda’s reliability (is the mariner not so reliable?)

    Cheers!!

     

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