Latest News: Forums Technical Two simple rule changes to modernise the Wayfarer

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  • #8133
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Please remember that sails tend to come from agents (Hartleys etc.) rather than manufacturers. Blame them if the sails have no numbers. Order sails from manufacturers with numbers and you’ll get them.

    Martyn

    #8142
    Colin Parkstone
    Participant

    Well this Banks agent never sells racing sails to anyone without numbers and measurement!!!
    C P 🙂

    #8146

    Having started this debate as I thought that the forum had gone very quiet, I thought I ought to join in.

    I looks like the jib furler proposal is a non starter – no one seems to be supporting that one.

    With regard to the numbers on the sponnaker, I really, really hope that no one protests anyone at the Inland Nationals because they don’t have sail numbers of their spinnaker. That would be completely unsporting in my opinion.

    We have an EXCOMM telephone conference meeting on Tues 3rd June and Mike and I will table it for discussion there (we do have a functioning democracy – unlike the House of Commons – working away behind the scenes).

    Steve

    #8147
    Colin Parkstone
    Participant

    They have to be put on sometime Steve,if not then your all open to be disqualified.

    The option is yours and I think we also know that you cannot change the rules on the 2nd June,it has to go to the AGM.

    Such is the workings of a functioning demcracy!!

    If you intend to enter the National Champs your going to need them !!!

    Your champion last year had numbers on all his Hyde sails.

    What I fail to understand is why people accepted these sails in the first place ???

    As for unsporting,if people are not bothered to follow the rules like eveyone else I think that is being unsporting to the rest of the fleet,ask the Irish boat owners who did follow the rules and at great expense.

    C P

    #8152
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Why did we accept a boat with no spi numbers? Easy – we discovered the lack of numbers when we picked-up the boat and having sold the old boat we’d had no chute-launchable spi and a worn-out set of spare white sails and hence a not really race-fit boat.

    No choice.

    #8154
    Colin Parkstone
    Participant

    Ok SWD,point made but you still had to sort it yourself,Shame!!
    C P 🙁

    #8157

    @Colin Parkstone wrote:

    Ok SWD,point made but you still had to sort it yourself,Shame!!
    C P 🙁

    And I note that it took Steve a lot of time and effort to do it. Other members will not have time to do this in time for the Inland Nationals the weekend after next. So I stand by my comment that it would be very unsporting to protest someone for not having numbers on their spinnakers there.

    My point about Excomm is, let’s give the committee a chance to talk about it, and then Mike and I will feedback on this forum. Quentin is on the case and talking about whether numbers should be stiched on or stencilled on.

    I am minded to put forward a suggestion for a rule change on this topic at the 2010 AGM. It seems to me to be a simple, tidying up type of rule change. And we might even have scrutineering and a measurer at the 2010 worlds. Remember no one wanted to pay for this at Falmouth (sorry).

    #8158

    @swd wrote:

    Can’t the fiddlers leave the boat alone for a while?

    We’re not fiddling with the boat, Steve, we’re talking about it – quite a different thing. The problem is that there is nothing much to watch on TV these days.

    Steve

    #8159
    Smillie
    Member

    With regard to the issue of sail numbers, this may be of interest. I recently asked several of the sail makers who advertised in Wayfarer News for quotes for new sails. Not all of them even replied to my enquiry, but of those who did, I noted that one was very open about importing from the Far East and offered sail numbers loose, to be attached by the buyer. (He noted that other importers are not so open.) The UK manufacturers offered to supply sails with numbers attached. I placed an order with Jon Clarke of EDGE Sails in Coventry on 11th May and received said sails – with numbers – on 19th May!

    #8166

    The racing Rules of Sailing published by ISAF (not IYRU, Colin, for the last 20 years or so we have been Sailing not Yachting!) are very clear

    Every boat of an ISAF International Class and Recognised Class shall carry on her spinnaker a sail number and, at international events, national letters denoting her national authority. They only need to be on the front side.

    RYA Prescriptions apply these rules to all British owned boats.

    So the rules apply, and the class, clubs and competitors are duty bound to enforce these rules. At present the only penalty allowed would be disqualification.

    Note that a Race Committee would be obliged to protest a boat that does not have the apporpriate sail number, they cannot disqualify the boat without a hearing.

    I would suggest that all SIs include the following:

    “The penalty for breaking rule 77 may be less than disqualification”

    In this way the Protest Committee can propose a suitable penalty – a generous contribution to the RNLI would seem appropriate.

    I have always found that local sailmakers can supply sail numbers rapidly.

    Gordon

    #8169
    Swiebertje
    Participant

    @Gordon Davies wrote:

    Every boat of an ISAF International Class and Recognised Class shall carry on her spinnaker a sail number and, at international events, national letters denoting her national authority.

    Correct, but if you read on in those rules you will find an exception; National letters may be omitted if an international numbering schema exists. The best known example is the Laser class that generally does not use National letters. Since the Wayfarer class uses international numbering it has always been my understanding that national letters were optional in our class.

    Having discussed this matter on several occasions, most people I spoke to felt that it would be better to omit the national letters to emphasize we are an International bunch of sailing friends, and Nationality plays only a minor role. As a consequence all our Nationals are Open Nationals as you may have noticed and there are many International get-togethers every year.

    #8170
    RayS
    Member

    Anyway – for the Wayfarer the spinnaker numbering rule is perfectly clear.
    This is an extract from the WIC Rules 2009

    30.7 Sail numbers on spinnaker. Shall be shown on the front, or on both sides, at approximately half height. The numbers shall be of contrasting colour to the sail and not less than 300 (11¾”) in height nor 200 (7.7/8″) in width (except for numeral 1) nor 45 (1¾”) in thickness.

    Ray

    #8173

    Swiebertje said “National letters may be omitted if an international numbering schema exists.”

    I can’t actually see that in my copies of the current rules. Perhaps you could provide a reference.

    To my knowledge Laser carry National Sail Letters at International events as defined by G1.1b.

    Gordon

    #8245

    Quentin has been in dicussion with the Hartleys and reported back to the ExComm telephone conference at the beginning of June.

    Richard and Mark don’t like stitching numbers on spinnakers, but have found a way to stencil the numbers onto the sail. They are doing this on all new boats from now, and will stencil numbers onto sails they have sold without numbers (admittedly easier said than done, given they are based in Derby).

    I will ask them to bring their stencilling kit to Falmouth!

    Excomm decided it has no position on numbers on spinnaker. If a member decides to put a proposal for a rule change to AGM, then a free vote will be held.

    Steve Collins
    Assistant Racing Secretary

    #8246
    tempest51
    Member

    Only in the UK can we create such complications for no sensible gain. Leave Richard and Mark to carry on fulfilling their order books without having to stencil silly numbers on Spinnakers. In my view they are breathing oxygen into the future of our beloved Wayfarer class. What a load of nonsense! Another ruling by committee?
    Regards to all sensible sailors.

    Tempest51

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