Latest News: Forums Racing Sponsorship

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  • #3886
    Colin Parkstone
    Participant

    Can anyone tell me what I can put on my boat as far as advertising is concerned ?

    I believe that it comes down to the category of the event whether we can or cannot advertise and sizes of advertising for each category.

    Can the class or any organizer of any event tell me which events are using which category including the Dutch and Danish Champs and if the class has any policy for its events and Championships.

    Am also thinking about the Worlds next year.

    I have put this item on the open forum so that all people may benefit from any answers or information and also to maybe gauge opinion from the class on this subject.

    C P 🙂

    #7934
    bigal
    Member

    What about hair restorer or slimming aids !!!

    #7937
    Colin Parkstone
    Participant

    Kettle Black!!!!!

    #7938
    bigal
    Member

    You haven’t seen me in the shower recently -slim-line !!

    #7939
    Colin Parkstone
    Participant

    I promised not to look !!! 😉

    #7946

    The Judge’s answer – you have to comply with the ISAF Regulation Code and the Class rules. I believe that class policy is to restict advertising to Catgory A (I’ll check the class rules and come back to you)- which means that you cannot put advertising on the hull sails or crew’s gear except within extremely narrow limits. The sailmakers logo at the tack of a sail is allowed, for instance.

    There may be a case for allowing advertising. If used correctly it could allow more people to finance their racing. It is quite common, in France, for instance, for a local small firm to sponsor the sailing clubs racing team.

    Gordon

    #7947
    Colin Parkstone
    Participant

    Thanks Gordan,

    More info please.!!

    I do not see from the Nor of any of the opens or Championships that they have said what Category it will be,can anyone help with that.

    Steve,will the class advertise the categories soon ??

    C P 😕

    Ps Take it back Colin,Waldringfield is Cat C

    #7948

    NOR for National Circuit Series does not mention any Category for advertising. The default category is category C which allows considerable scope for advertising, but reserves certain parts of the boat and sail plan for event sponsors.

    As all the events on the National Circuit will be category C (if not you have a good case for redress!) it would be perverse, to say the least if the Nationals were to be category A. However, it might be a good idea to ask a formal question concerning next years worlds. It wood be a shame to have to repaint the boat for that event.

    Gordon

    #7949
    Colin Parkstone
    Participant

    Gordan,
    Does the class default override a clubs category if they have stated one for their open meeting.
    If an open is NOT on the Natonal Circuit Series list which would that be?

    If there is no Event sponsor are their parts of the boat still out of bounds to another sponsor.

    Gordon, I ask these questions on the forum so all can see them and not have to be repeated again! Also it opens up the discussion for all!

    I will wade my way through the rules on sizes ect and see if I can make head nor tail of it.

    Many Thanks,

    C P 🙂

    #7951

    No instant reply but one will be forthcoming when I have a few hours . Thankyou for providing me with the opportunity to open this particulr Pandora’s box, I haven’t studied it in any particular detail yet.

    The simplest way out, probably, is for both UKWA and WIC to state clearly that regatas wil not be recognisd by the class association if they are not Category C.

    I suspect that this is a question that hes never arisen before. Some classes are not infavour of advertising, others see it as useful way of recovering some of the expenses of camapigning a boat.

    Gordon

    #7952
    Swiebertje
    Participant

    Gordon,

    That is not a matter for UKWA nor WIC to decide. Events are organized by a hosting club, it is they who decide what category an event is. We are just guests of those clubs. If we were to limit ourselves to cat. A only, it may severely limit our choice of clubs or events. I am sure you are aware that there aren’t that many clubs around with a really good committee? Adding a category limit to our class rules would be a bad idea, in my humble opinion. It is far better to negotiate this on a per event basis.

    Obviously there is nothing wrong having a preference for cat. A events and negotiating such with the clubs we are dealing with. But let’s not carve it in stone!

    By the way, cat A is the limited category that allows not much more then small sail maker’s and boat builder’s markings. Cat C is the “unlimited class”. Over here the really nice events sometimes force us to apply a (temporary) sticker of the event sponsor. Also private sponsors markings are possible (see RRS: Appendices Section II – Regulation 20).

    #7953

    Swiebertje,

    With all due respect, may I beg to differ.

    All boats and crew must comply with the ISAF Regulation 20, Advertising Code. (Rule 80) Rule 80 may not be changed by National Authority prescriptions, the sailing instructions nor the class rules (Rule 86.1)

    The default setting for all ISAF classes is as follows:

    Advertising chosen by the Person in Charge may be displayed on hulls, spars and sails without restriction except on the spaces reserved for identification by Appendix G of the Racing Rules and under Regulations 20.5 & 20.9 (20.3.1.2).

    However, ISAF Classes have the right to prescribe that no Advertising
    may be displayed pursuant to Regulation 20.3.1.2, or in the alternative that only limited Advertising may be displayed (20.5.1)

    For National Classes the National Authority which has recognized a National Class shall, on application by such National Class, decide whether Advertising shall be permitted or not and if so subject to limitations or not. (20.5.7)

    All other classes shall not display any Advertising nor be required to
    display any Event Advertising without the prior written agreement of ISAF, either in respect of a specific event, series of events or for a specific Class (20.6.4)

    The Wayfarer is neither on the list of ISAF classes nor on the RYA list of National Classes.

    In which case 20.6.4 applies. Unless UKWA has written permission from ISAF and Wayfarers in the UK may not be display advertising and events may not oblige them to display advertising unless they have written permission from ISAF (who presumably will charge a fee!). The situation in the Netherlands, Scandanavia, US and Canada is similar. The class may have become a National class in which case the National Authority may allow advertising. The local class association may have written permision, or the event may have written permission. Somehow I think that this is unlikely.

    If the class wishes boats to be allowed to display advertising then it may be time to start contacting ISAF.

    Gordon

    PS To my surprise the concepts of Category C and A have dissapeared from the latest version of Regulation 20.

    #7954
    Swiebertje
    Participant

    Gordon,

    Apparently you have given the matter more of your time then I did. But through your explanation I still reach the same conclusion and that is not to complicate matters through our class rules (though we are allowed to). I know of at least one event we are trying to get in to over here, where we would have to carry a temporary sticker near the bow from the event sponsor. This event is legal by both ISAF and Dutch sailing association rules. If we don’t want such a sticker on our hull we don’t participate, it is that simple. I believe this should be a choice for each individual skipper, the class association should stay out of the equation.

    Since January 1st 2009 our situation has become slightly different, we are now, like the Danes, a national recognized class, but I don’t think that changes much with regard to advertising but it does give us access to the good racing clubs and events. It took us six years to get this far and we don’t want to aggravate the relationship with our NSA. We are having troubles enough with the class rules. (They do not follow the ISAF prescriptions, but that problem is already being worked on by UKWA as well as the other NCA’s, see also other postings on this forum).

    For private advertising at the official cat. C events, the tariff over here for boats like the Wayfarer is in the neighborhood of 30 E for a single event or around 60 E for a whole year. Now, suppose we would try to grab some from this loot through a class rule change, what would be left over after the ISAF and the NSA took their share? Perhaps a few penny’s? So why bother?
    Obviously at informal events we don’t care. In any case lets leave it to the clubs and national sailing authorities and let’s not involve ourselves in the spiders web called “advertising”.

    For clarity: This is my private opinion, NEDWA has no official views yet on the matter.

    #7955

    The Class Association cannot stay out of the equation. If they do nothing then advertising is not allowed, and event organisers cannot oblige a competitor to display advertising unless they have gone through the corrrect administrative procedures (obligation more honoured in the breach than in the observance, I suspect). I would suggest that a policy of burying our collective head in the sand is merely storing up trouble for the future (for an example of this please reflect on the history of copyright/measurement issues in the class).

    If the Wayfarer is a National Class in the Netherlands then the question of advertising should be dealt with by an agreement with the National Authority. You seem to have that in place as of 1st Jan.

    I would suggest that the way forward is to restructure the class rules to follow the ISAF template then apply for ISAF class status. In this way adverising becomes permitted for all Wayfarers. My worry is that boats may arrive at the Worlds next year and be required to do an emergency repaint if the Jury’s reading of the situation is that adverising is not permitted. The class has already been there…

    As you so rightly point out there are issues relating to income – for National Authorities and ISAF

    Gordon

    #7970

    @Colin Parkstone wrote:

    Thanks Gordan,
    Steve,will the class advertise the categories soon ??

    I did a google search on these mysterious categories when I was doing some work on NoRs a month or two ago, but could not come up with anything informative (even on the ISAF website) so I removed any reference to categories!

    Thanks to the the forum, I now know what categories A and C are, but does anyone know what category B is?

    Personally, I am in favour of advertising. I have a major sponsorship deal pending with my sister and brother-in-law who run the excellent Forum Jewellers, in Broadstone, Poole!

    Steve

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