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- 21/08/2006 at 1:36 pm #3358
Are there any standard sailing instructions for Wayfarer events, or reccomendations? If so, could somebody send me a copy
I would like to propose running an event in our club.
W922821/08/2006 at 11:14 pm #4696Colin ParkstoneParticipant
Go for it Gordon,you will find out all you need from Toby Mace or on the webbsite under any open meeting in the 2006 calender.Look for the Notice of Race and the Entry Form.
If you talk to the class sec she may find for you the Irish rep.
CP 🙂22/08/2006 at 8:45 am #4697
Thanks for the reply, Colin.
Having just attended a Wayfarer event, the Irish Nationals, I noticed that were several points in the SIs that seem to be a relic from more ancient versions of the Racing Rules. I was wondering whether there were standard SIs, or class recommendations, that might need updating…or whether the SIs had just been handed down from one club to another over the years.
This is a recurring problem in many classes.
In any case I will be writing a proposed update for the SIs that were used for this event that I will give to the Irish class secretary in good time for their AGM… Unfortunately, the Irish rep having been out of action for health reasons for some time.
One point that I did note – the races seemed somewhat long for a small fleet. After 25-30 minutes sailng the fleet psreads out and there are only minor changes to the placings. 3 races were sailed per day. By eliminating the 3rd round of a “super-olympic” (triangle sausage triangle) 4 or even 5 races could have been sailed. Is there a class policy on this?
Sorry to be a bit of a SI nerd. Having spent nearly a year re-writing opur club SIs to conform to the ISAF template (one day’s writing and 364 negociating…) and having had to deal with some weird and not so wonderful SIs elsewhere, I feel that any departure from the ISAF template has to be justified by very specific and over-riding needs of the class.
W922812/09/2006 at 11:48 am #4744
Some work has been done in standardising the SI’s in the past, but it is time for them to be looked at again as they tend to drift off over the years as they get picked up by different clubs and committees. I am sure the UKWA would appreciate your input if this is your interest and speciality. Do you have what you consider to be a standard SI? We do have the results of a study in this area; but would prefer to leave this until after the sailing season; too much on at the moment! Would appeciate your input over the winter. Ray12/09/2006 at 11:49 am #4745
….. I mean Gordon!
Ray12/09/2006 at 11:52 am #4746
At the Europeans, just completed, we had 3 races a day but to a fixed time table of 1 hour per race so that the final triangle was omitted if we ran out of time. Worked very well.
Ray12/09/2006 at 9:34 pm #4749AnonymousInactive
as Ray has said, if you feel the urge to standardise on the SI’s please standardise away! My view is to make them as simple as possible based on the RRS guidelines. I like to avoid Z flag penalties but stick with P, I or black flag rules. Normal 5,4,1 go sequence, of course. There’s usually local safety stuff to do with tally systems etc. If that exists then I suggest charity donations for a first tallying offence rather than anything affecting race scores. For a second offense then penalise as much as you wish!
My real interest is in the format and courses. On open water events and reservoirs the olympic triangle sausage courses are popular and work very well. Finish can be either at the upwind mark, or after the downwind mark after a short finishing reach to the finish line. Clearly triangle/sausage courses don’t usually work well on estuaries, and for those venues the locals will know how to set a decent course.
We seem to have “standardised” on races that last about 75 or 80 minutes, or shorter (say 60 minutes) if we have three races back-to-back. It’s nice to get 4 laps in I think because then you get 2 runs rather than just the one, and runs can be quite tactical (whereas the reaches concentrate more on speed). On a 60 minute course, 4 laps makes for rather short legs so you may have to sacrifice a run (which is a shame), so there are choices to be made on race length, number of laps and length of the beats.
Generally if there is a reasonably long sail from the shore to the race area, or if launching is a bottleneck, then 2 races a day is enough. There are several venues where launching is quick and easy and the distance to the course is short (e.g. reservoirs) and here it is quite reasonable to sail 3 races per day, and it can be nice to put in a break ashore to avoid three races all back-to-back which is a bit challenging as you always seem to get cold hanging around between races!
Those are my views…13/09/2006 at 4:47 pm #4761
Would anybody be able to send me copies of SI for recent Wayfarer events.This will answer many of the questions found in the ISAF template, and bring up further questions. Please send electronic copies to firstname.lastname@example.org
The question of the Z flag is interesting. The Snipe class specifically forbids the use of the black flag as they believe that the duty of a Race Officer is to provide sailing not to send competitors home for an early shower! The 20% points penalty for every time the competitor infringes is an effecive deterrent. In France , the Sailing Federation insists that the P flag is never used. All starts are run using the I flag at the very least. I have met Race Officers who would break out the black flag from the very first start – especially at Oppy, Laser and 1720 events.
As for formats and courses – this depends on the class and also on the size of the fleet. I feel that good racing is racing in close proximity to other boats with lots of place changing. In small fleets boats can get spread out and racing becomes somewhat processional.
One way to avoid this is to run more, shorter races. At our club regatta the 6 boat Wayfarer fleet (they got a seperate start) sailed a triangle, sausage and a truncated triangle (finish just after the gybe mark. Races lasted about 35 – 40 minutes, with the first beat lasting 7 – 8 minutes.
If we had been running a single class event we could have run 4, even 5, races in the day with the first boat not having to wait more than about 15 minutes after finishing before the next start sequence begins. This would have meant spending about 4 or 5 hours on the water, which seems reasonable As we sail out of a drying harbour we have no time to stop for lunch.
One suggestion that we have tried is used by Radio Command sailing and by the RS fleet. The time limit for closing the line after the first boat has finished is reduced, however boats that do not finish are scored after their position at the last mark rounding. This requires a little organisation, but it avoids having to wait for stragglers. I am not suggesting that this is a suitable procedure for all events, but it does help the RO shorten the time necessary between races.
Another tactic to encourage bunching is to sail the sausage first, as this is the tactical downwind leg. Many classes have abandoned the triangle completely (to such an extent that some boats are being built in such a way that they cannot take the forces engendered by a reaching spinnaker). Sailing the run after the first beat ensures that boats are still in contact.
Another (radical) suggestion might be to shorten course if the leading boat had more than, say, 2 minutes lead or if there is more than a given time (1 minute, 30 seconds?) x the number of competitors between first and last boat. This may or may not be acceptable.
There are lots of ideas…I look forward to a lively debate.
W922814/09/2006 at 8:50 pm #4770AnonymousInactive
Gordon, I’ve sent you copies of this year’s Easterns and Nationals SIs to get you going. Cheers, Toby16/09/2006 at 10:24 am #4772SwiebertjeParticipant
I am not aware of the UK situation but here (Holland) the hosting SC takes care of the NOR and SI. For Nationals and Europeans they need to be submitted for scrutenising, before being published, to the national sailing authority (e.g. RYA).
The NOR and SI for the Europeans have been checked and approved by the Dutch counterpart of RYA. The Europeans NOR is available on the Dutch web-site (http://www.wayfarer.nl/) and the SI I can email if you like (MS-word document).
I would expect the RYA (http://www.rya.org.uk/) to have a standard NOR/SI available on their web-site. If not the Dutch “watersportverbond” (http://www.watersportverbond.nl/) has them available on their web-site (MS-word, in English). You could also check out the ISAF site. There is a lot of usefull stuff there. (http://www.sailing.org/)
Ton18/09/2006 at 10:33 pm #4778
The Notice of Race is published by the organizing authority (RRS 88.2a) which may be ISAF, a MNA, a club, a class association…. see RRS 88.1 and 88.2. For a major class event I would prefer the class to be part of the organizing authority – after all it is the class not the club that confers to a class assocition member the honour of being declared national or regional champion, or of being qualified to represent the class at an intrrnational event
The Race Committee publish the SIs – see 89.2a and conducts races as directed by the organizing authority.
As I read this this means that the class can have an input into SIs used for Wafarer class events.
My point was that some Wayfarer events – not the UK Nationals, nor the Europeans – were using SIs that are somewhat dated in several respects:
– proposing solutions to problems that no longer exist;
– repeating rules that are already incoporated into the RRS
I will propose comments and modifications to the clubs concerned and to UKWA for consideration.
On a wider point there is the question of the type of racing proposed with, at one extreme, the old Olympic format of one race per day lasting some 2 to 3 hours, and at the other the 4/5 (or more) race per day format with races lasting some 20/30 minutes. I personally feel that we should offer both long abd short races, and where local conditions permit, why not offer coastal races where navigation and the very specific charecteristics of the Wayfarer might be shown to great avantage…
Gordon Davies18/09/2006 at 11:45 pm #4779W10143Member
and where local conditions permit, why not offer coastal races where navigation and the very specific charecteristics of the Wayfarer might be shown to great avantage..
an interesting concept, especially if point to point, (although difficult logistically), and I wonder if this might persuade more ‘cruisers’ to enjoy Wayfarer racing… although of course cruisers don’t race:-?
David20/09/2006 at 1:11 pm #4782
… i have found some of the cruisers very competitive though the R word is never mentioned. Bit like racing only you can start when you like! Ray
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