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Roger,
Cannot speak about a Seagul, but most manufactures give a guide as to what shaft you need in relation to the fixing height off the engine above the waterline/bottom of the boat.
From my experience, the vast majority of Wayfarer owners opt for the short shaft. This is partially down to the weight of the engine and also the fact that many can then be housed in the rear buoyancy tank.
That being said, it depends upon whether you intend to fix it to the back of the transom with wooden “pads” to take the load, or whether you intend to use a removal bracket.
My boat has the latter which has the effect of raising the fixed point above where it would be on the transom, and so I opted for a Mercury 3.3 Long Shaft. This puts sufficient shaft below the waterline for good propulsion, steerage and economy.
Hope this helps
Tony
Hi Tony,
Thank you for your reply.Very usefull. I’ve been offered a secondhand long shaft Seagull for £50 from a member of my club which, if it runs OK, seems like good value. My other concern is, will it fit in the rear locker? Any ideas?
Regards Roger.
Hi Roger – If you look under “technical” on forum you will find a thread entitled “outboard bracket”. I posted quite a few drawings to people which give on option for mounting a seagull.
In my opinion you need a short shaft seagull but a long shaft model can easily be shortened with a hacksaw. If you take the small drive shaft (2 nuts) and the exhaust (1 screw) off the base of the engine you can split the shaft/exhaust. Shorten the exhaust tube, water cooling pipe and square drive shaft to whatever length you want. Long shaft will be too long – if the prop is submerged too deep it runs really badly (I have tried!)
Also the long shaft I don’t think will fit in the rear tank of a Mark 1If you need a drawing of the seagull or bracket I can copy them and send them to you
You don’t say what model Seagull it is – if you give me the serial number I can identify it for you
Hope this helps
Robert
With any boat you want the propeller in free flowing water. That means only just, but fully below the keel level at the transom Any deeper and you have troubles navigating shallow waters. On a Wayfarer this propeller position is easily achieved by a short tail outboard. On the other hand, a long tail may be a blessing in a heavy chop where a short tail tries to push air half the time. The question now becomes if you intend to use it in rough sea’s a lot? Or if you rather sail shallow waters with it (beaching)?
Storing it in the aft locker is no option in my opinion and here is why:
1. The weight is where you don’t want it. A better storage location is, in an engine bag, next to the CB or in front of the mast (mk1 only).
2. I never open the aft locker at sea. If it floods I am doomed. Remember that, while sailing, it is not a locker but a buoyancy tank, intended for your and your crew’s safety!
3. I consider the engine a safety device as well, hence I like to carry it at the ready at the transom. Just think for a minute about how you are going to attach the engine to the boat in a choppy sea? You wouldn’t be the first to unintentionally offer an engine to Neptune.The special Wayfarer outboard bracket (the removable one), when mounted as intended, brings the top of the mounting board (plank?) to the exact same level as the transom. Therefore, using this sort of bracket is no reason to choose for a long tail engine IMHO.
There is more to be found on the subject if you use this forums search function and also there is a lot to be found on the Wayfarer Institute of technology (WIT) web site.
Can i ask you this then?
If putting the engine in the aft tank is wrong because of the weight and the safety aspects, then the best place is in the boat forward.
When do you put it on the transom for safety,what makes you choose the time to put it their?
CP 😕
Reply to Swiebertje points
I have never had any problems with many miles cruising with a short shaft seagull. Sea, Lake and River. There will be too much back pressure (exhaust) on a long shaft seagull and it probably won’t work very well. I once borrowed one and it didn’t. I don’t know about other engines
1) I’ve never had any problems with the weight in the aft locker and I keep petrol and tools there too. In any case if you sail with it on the transom “for safety” – its weight is even worse there!
2) I keep mine in a plywood box in the aft locker with the rest of the locker filled with polystyrene so hopefully I am not “doomed”. I could lose the locker hatch and still float.The locker is only open for a short while while I get it out/put it back in and I am careful
3) I sail mostly with mine in the locker. It is a sailing boat. I get the engine out if I need to get home and the wind dies. I have used it with the sails in strong winds to punch against the tide but either put it on early or heave to if necessary. Normally it is lack of wind that is the problem so I do not worry about capsize. It really isn’t so difficult to mount at sea. I’ve done it hundreds of times without mishap
Its an unecessay nuisance banging around on the back of the boat all the time and very vulnerable to banging or fouling with ropes. Its dry. All the oil petrol smells etc won’t get in your sandwiches, all over the dog/wife/concubine/children.
A bag is a solution if you worried about capsizing but I suspect it will get soaked with oil/petrol (seagulls are notoriously leaky). When I am cruising I have enough clutter in the boat but yes a bag is an optiion.NB If you go for my option don’t open the hatch with a cigarette hanging out of your mouth!!@Colin Parkstone wrote:
Can i ask you this then?
If putting the engine in the aft tank is wrong because of the weight and the safety aspects, then the best place is in the boat forward.
When do you put it on the transom for safety,what makes you choose the time to put it their?
CP 😕
As with many other things in sailing it is a compromise between safety, ease of use and balance. I choose to have it at the ready at the transom always. Others choose to carry it near the center of gravity. The only thing I can do is move some heavy stuff to the front to compensate but that compensates only the static balance. Dynamically the boat behaves different no matter how much weight I move forward to compensate. Since I used it with success in rough seas several times to save other boats or myself, I accept the unbalance in favor of the safety of having it at the ready.
Swiebertje – How big is your outboard? If you’re having all this trouble with balance etc I can only think it that it is much bigger than mine. I’ve sailed with 1,2,3,4,5 people and somtimes a dog without major problems. Always the engine in the aft locker or when needed transom. I must admit with 5 + dog + camping gear it was a bit odd but it was on Ullswater (lake) and it was calm. I have often sailed on the sea with 1,2,3 or 4 crew and no problems
RobertI have no troubles with balance, what makes you think I have?
For efficient sailing you want your boat level on the waterline. Too much weight aft and the transom starts to drag, too much in the front and the bow starts to dig in to the waves. In both cases the waterline is shortened and the speed reduced (assuming the boat isn’t in a plane). But this is only the static weight distribution.
Think of your boat as two weights connected by a rod. It should be obvious that if you increase the length of the rod the dynamic behavior changes while the total weight stays the same. In other words, it changes the pitch characteristic of your boat. Having all weight as close as possible to the center of gravity makes the boat pitch more but it won’t dive in to a wave easy. With the weight all the way aft and front the boat is easier on the pitch but it will probably take more water over the foredeck and as a consequence it sails less efficient (slower).
Phew! Lots to think about there. Thanks guys.
Blu Tak, I’m going to follow your suggestion and have a look at the Outboard Bracket thread. I hav’nt got the engine yet. I wanted to wait untill I had a more informed idea of what I wanted. Hope to get the serial No. tomorrow. So I’ll let you know. Being an engineer,and tight, I very much liked the shortening solution. Allthough not so keen on the leaking into the locker.
TTFN Roger.
Hi there, Blu Tac, The serial No. for the Seagull engine is FP1691JJ3. Any Info. you can supply would be most helpfull.
This site was given to me ,maybe of help?
http://www.saving-old-seagulls.co.uk
Can’t see the point of saving them myself,have you seen your deck after they have been for a visit?
C P 😉
Roger – The website Colin has given you is excellent and I see now has an engine identifier button on it so you no doubt now know everything! John – the owner – is very helpful and his prices are reasonable – I can recommend him.
I’m afraid seagulls tend to leak some oil/petrol out of the carb bowl, exhaust and propellor – this is normal for them!
The 25:1 needle conversion is well worth it
You say you have a longshaft but I’d have expected a L after FP ie FPL. I’d check it is a longshaft – they are often bastardised!
The engine (40+) is the same as I have – just the job for cheap motoring, but do use the correct fuel mix/gearbox oil
Any Questions – don’t hesitate to contact me – I’ll try to help
Robert
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