Latest News: Forums Cruising New Hartley Wayfarer

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  • #3592
    Colin Parkstone
    Participant

    All the noise on the forum has come from the Racing people, How about the cruising people having a say on the new boat and where it fits into the class for them????
    CP
    😀

    #5972

    Colin,

    As a very happy Hartley owner, (upgrade from a Mk2 GRP) I think the new boat is very much the boat for me. My challenge is actually whether the current class association is the one for me. The party line seems to be that the ‘core’ racing fleet are critical to the well being of the class, and so their needs must be met. So be it, but that doesn’t match my own view, and judging from recent AGMs and the UKWA bit of the forum this results in the class association being characterised by tension and confrontation.

    The bright side is that the cruising section is very entertaining. Lets hope we can remain a slightly separate happy and contented band of like minded people. I anticipate that ‘Hartleys’ will be made very welcome at all cruising events and I also anticipate more than a little good natured banter about my super slinky transom!!

    On a much more serious note, will the UKWA boat tents fit, and should I get a new picnic set to go with the new luggage box?

    Charles

    #5974
    Bob Harland
    Participant

    How the new boat works out for cruising will I think depend on your type of cruising. Based on our experience of extensive cruising and camping in both a Mk1a and World I make these observations.

    For day-sailing I am sure it will be a fine boat. Without a large aft tank there is lots of cockpit space as there is on the World.
    When it comes to extended cruising and camping aboard there seem to be some limitations.

    Stowage: The large aft locker (aft buoyancy tank) has always been the principle stowage place on a cruising boat. The lack of it on the new boat needs a creative solution. Whilst there are workarounds for the stowage on the World this is even more problematic on the new boat as there is less floor space.

    Camping aboard: The length of the cockpit of the new boat means the average height crew will have to sleep with their legs under the thwart. However the self draining design on the new boat – the raised floor – means very limited space under the thwart for your legs.
    On the World which also has a raised floor there is plenty of length without having to put your feet under the centre thwart. With the traditional designs you just sleep with your legs under the thwart – there’s enough height.
    Sleeping aboard the new boat looks like a problem.

    Bilges The new boat does not have a bilge. When you are sailing the bailers keep the boat dry. But not when you are moored up. Even with a good boat tent rain will stream into the boat down the mast. So if it rains the floor gets wet and there is nowhere for the water to go. On the World you can just about tolerate this as there are pretty large divets on the outer sides of the floor for water to drain into. Not so on the new boat. Anything on the floor will get wet.

    I am sure the new boat is a very comfortable boat to sail, and has some excellent features. For the day-sailors it will be fine for cruising. But the reputation of the Wayfarer was built on more than that, it was built on its extended cruising ability. Over the decades many many people taken their Wayfarers on expedition cruises camping aboard, capitalising on its great sea-going qualities and for that the new boat has some significant drawbacks.

    Bob Harland
    W9933

    #5975
    Bob Harland
    Participant

    On a much more serious note, will the UKWA boat tents fit, and should I get a new picnic set to go with the new luggage box?

    I am pretty sure the UKWA boat tents will be a poor fit. The hull/deck join effectively makes the boat longer and wider – you can check the dimensions compared with your MkII.

    Bob Harland
    W9933

    #5979
    Swiebertje
    Participant

    Has anyone checked the capsize and recovery characteristics of the new Hartley boat yet?

    As stated, the new Hartley is, like the World, a wet boat.

    As for safety; I rather be on a CE class C boat that is easy to recover then on a CE class A or B boat that drains instantaneously but that inverts immediately and is near impossible to recover. Ask yourself what is safer, sitting in a water filled cockpit but upright or on the bottom of an inverted boat that is near impossible to recover?

    The plus S is still the perfect cruising boat for me.

    #5982

    I agree with you Bob about the fact that it will be challenging to achieve a dry sleeping area. I’m going to have fun trying to achieve it though, and will keep the forum posted. I really hope I succeed otherwise it will be a bit of a problem. I don’t fancy having to sleep in a bivvy bag.

    As for sleeping area, I’m not so worried. The height under the thwart is either 10 or 11 inches, depending which bit you measure. (see posting under ‘hartley cruising wayfarer) This compares OK with a woodie (11.5 inches). I’ll measure the MkII next time I’m at the sailing club. The length is OK as well. From transom to thwart is 5ft 6in, so even at 6ft 3 my knees will be well clear of the thwart. Much better than the Mk 2 but obviously nowhere near as good as a world.

    On the stowage front, there is masses of space up front compared to the Mk2, and so I’m not worried. I happen to have the optional rear stowage box, but if one has that on board the sleeping space is much reduced. Basically when sleeping aboard I plan to leave the box at home and use the front stowage. The real stowage challenge is going to be how to tie things in. The clean cut design means there are are very few points to tie to. I plan to work with Hartleys to identify all the areas where there is wood available to screw fittings to, and will then add a couple of fittings specifically for this purpose.

    On the capsize front, I have tried it, and deliberately left it and in due course it did indeed invert. There was however, plenty of time to get round to the centre board, and I could very easily have stopped it inverting. In terms of righting it from on its side, my 15 year old 8.5 stone daughter was able to right it by herself. Not sure how this compares to other wayfarers, but from my point of view this is just fine. As you’d expect the water in the boat just disappeared as soon as we started sailing.

    Bottom line: My biaised view: In terms of sleeping aboard, the world has advantages over the Hartley. If (a big if!) I can achieve a dry sleeping area I think the Hartley has advantages over a Mk2. I guess you pays your money and takes your choice.

    #5985
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Swiebertje wrote

    As for safety; I rather be on a CE class C boat that is easy to recover then on a CE class A or B boat that drains instantaneously but that inverts immediately and is near impossible to recover. Ask yourself what is safer, sitting in a water filled cockpit but upright or on the bottom of an inverted boat that is near impossible to recover?

    I could not find an easy answer to what these different definitions are but would like to know more. Can anyone point me to where I would find out.

    As for the new boat…….I saw the Hartley stand at the Boat show and the New Wayfarer. I think both Bob and Charles points highlight the debate, perhaps between extended cruising and the two nights away dry/one night away wet brigade (my camp). The thwart height seemed okay (shins underneath) and not anyworse than my mk2 which I find fine (enough). I do think the new boat is fantastic value for money too and importantly will bring new people in new boats into Wayfaring day sailing then cruising. Following the UKWA debate closely I hope it will get accomodated with the racers too. Although I love the more traditional appearance, and always buy second hand out of choice, the Hartley boat is the only realistic way forward that I can see.

    Final thought. When I went to the London Boat show a few years ago before I could sail I saw a Porter brothers Wayfarer set up to race. I was bamboozled by its complexity (and still would be). However at that point I might easily have been enticed into a Hartley Wayfarer for its simplicity and the Wayfarer reputation. It is the perfect boat still for family fun and everything else.

    #5986
    Bob Harland
    Participant

    @Dave Mac wrote:

    Swiebertje wrote

    As for safety; I rather be on a CE class C boat that is easy to recover then on a CE class A or B boat that drains instantaneously but that inverts immediately and is near impossible to recover. Ask yourself what is safer, sitting in a water filled cockpit but upright or on the bottom of an inverted boat that is near impossible to recover?

    I could not find an easy answer to what these different definitions are but would like to know more. Can anyone point me to where I would find out.

    there is comprehensive information on the RCD (recreational craft directive) at http://www.dti.gov.uk/innovation/strd/ecdirect/page12637.html,
    in summary though
    Design Category
    A = Ocean
    B = Offshore
    C = Inshore
    D = sheltered waters

    As I recall when this legislation came out we managed to get the Wayfarer into Category C : “voyages in coastal waters, ….. up to and including wind force 6 and significant wave heights up to and including 2m maybe experienced”

    #5987
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Thanks Bob…………the reason I ask is at the Boat show I was looking at Drascombe Luggers (no response required!) and heard reference to this classification.
    Dave

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