Latest News: Forums Cruising Inversion and Mast head bouyancy

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  • #3522
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    http://www.bluedome.co.uk/beginners/capsize.html

    Just thought I would share the above link with anyone who has not thought about inversion…..although quite an old story it is a really good read……it made me think and is why I put the Calshot Rally posting up (it is not too late to vote in the poll). I am heading towards the Secumar option (20 or 40 litres?) on the basis that I don’t intend to capsize at all (whereas the pad sewn into the sail seems to be for those who don’t object to the occasional capsize). (I am sure that over-simplifies the issue)

    Does anyone have a recommendation for the size of block and srews/rivets for fitting the block to the mast head……….I can imagine there might be quite a force on the fitting with the secumar inflated and resisting inversion?
    Any opinions welcome.
    Dave

    #5427
    QW7265
    Member

    Hi Dave – have used the 70l Secmar for a couple of years – not in anger thankfully!!
    I drilled my masthead through and inserted a M6 bolt with two small pulley blocks either side , one for the topping lift (excellent piece of kit) and the other for the bag halyard , I only hoist the bag when the weather is marginal rather that keep it up there all the time. I have had two accidental inflations both when towing down to the beach over very rough ground with the mast up, it seems to shake the very small plastic pin out and crush the water soluble tablet (that may have got a bit damp from being up the mast in the rain for a few months) – better to be able to raise and lower it and at 21.00 GBP per re-arming kit it’s best kept safe!!

    It is not only the safety aspect of avoiding inversion but also in shallow rough water , like up here in Liverpool Bay if you go over you will probably lose your mast – therefore the 70l version. I ALWAYS use the bag at sea.

    Q

    #5428
    QW7265
    Member

    Just noticed – I have the 40 litre version with a 70g CO2 cartridge – not 70litre!!!

    #5430
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Thanks Q, just the information and encouragement I needed for a little (not so little) retail therapy…..I have not been rushing the decision as recently I have not been doing anything sailing-wise the least bit risky due to the family with me in the boat, but once in a blue moon I hope to sail solo and that is when some peace of mind is a major factor…I will try and avoid those accidental inflations!

    #5433
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    At the end of the linked account of the inversion it says that wooden Wayfarers are anecdotally less prone to inversion. Is this true? If so, is this because of the wooden mast, or is it the the buoyancy configuration?
    I have a GRP Wayfarer with a wooden mast.

    #5435
    Bob Harland
    Participant

    You can also find the account in the Wayfarer Log library no 145.
    the logs are all available on line:
    http://wayfarer.org.uk/index.php?option=com_docman&Itemid=42

    #5442

    What happens once the masthead buoyancy inflates and you manage to right your boat? Does the extra windage make another capsize (in strong winds) more likely, or do you discard it? It seems to me once it has been used you are a bit exposed in the event of another capsize if you have discarded the inflated buoyancy.

    I ask because I capsized well out in a Scottish sea loch a couple of years ago and after the inversion and righting I would not have wanted extra windage at the top of the mast. I fitted an in-sail pocket as it seems to offer less intrusion and better multi capsize capability. I have yet to test it though, having also fitted extra reefing lines, but I am always interested in the best options.

    When we went over the inversion was very rapid (wayfarer world with aluminium mast), giving no time to reach a grab bag or anything. As a result I keep essentials (flares, radio, phone, whistle etc) in a waistcoat over my bouyancy aid. Thus if I am in the water I have it all with me and there is little interference with normal sailing; indeed it means that the radio is always to hand and not at the other end of the boat when you need it.

    #5444
    QW7265
    Member

    I had an accidential inflation and the begining of a two day cruise along the N Wales coast , wind was 5+ with a rough ride out of and into the Dee – rising 6 on the way in. I decided to keep the inflated bag up the mast considering that if I did go over I would rather it was up there to do a job, the same thoughts that I probably would have after an accidental capsize even if it did increase the possibility of going again. The only issue was the very annoying bangng of the CO2 bottle against the mast head!!
    As with most things I don’t think that there is a perfect solution for all senarios – only the one you feel happy with – maybe both sewn in pad and auto inflate bag?
    Q

    #5452
    Bob Harland
    Participant

    We also sail a World.
    We keep flares in a dry bag on a lanyard attached to the transom, the bag tends to float free of the boat when capsized so it’s then easy to access the flares if required.
    Any piece of kit that you want to keep should be secured to the boat, all our loose gear (VHF,GPS, bucket etc) are on lanyards clipped to the boat. There are numerous stories of people capsizing and losing vital equipment because it is not secured to the boat.

    The biggest disadvantage of the sailhead buoyancy (in sail pocket) is that as soon as you reef the buoyancy is rather less effective. There are also some doubts if you can get enough buoyancy with this method.

    #5454

    Bob

    Have you attached a extra bracket to the transom for your dry bag. I like the solution you have mentioned as I was wondering what to do with the larger flare pack, but as I have a main sheet traveller and do not want to interfere with that I was wondering where you attach the dry bag for the flares.

    Fully agree with tying it all on – either to me or to the boat. This has saved me countless caps!

    #5459
    Bob Harland
    Participant

    Adrian,
    No, we have a rope bridle for the main sheet block, and it just clips onto that.
    But I suppose you could fit something – we have access to the interior of the hull on the transom thru the inspection hatch.
    bob

    #5462
    W10143
    Member

    Hi

    On Barbie, the upper part of the transom (under the return) is solid – this is where Porters secured the rubber doorstops to secure the rear tank by through bolting them. I have removed the bolt and replaced with an eyebolt for each side – a good solid attachment point for anything (and everything)!

    David

    #5672

    I have been trying to find out more about masthead buoyancy on the web, but apart from one hit on an ‘RS Vision’ (for which I can find no details but price) I cannot find any details in fittings, sizes etc on any systems.

    Does anyone have any good links or further details? In particular Q can you confirm exactly what type yours is, as Google shows nothing for ‘secmar’.

    #5675
    W10143
    Member
    #5676

    Thank you David. More expense to keep the Girlfriend happy!

    Do you raise on its own halyard or doe you leave it up permanently?

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