Latest News: Forums Cruising How can I stop it falling out?

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  • #3828

    Hi Everyone, I own a Hartley Wayfarer and I’d like to add a few fixing points to clip items onto when sailing. How do other Wayfarer sailors stop all of their gear such as oars, drybags, anchor buckets etc from rolling around or floating away in the event of a capsize?

    I have a few ideas but am not keen on drilling holes in my boat without some words of wisdom from more experienced Wayfarer owners.

    Thanks for your thoughts

    Roger

    #7491
    Bob Harland
    Participant

    If you can access the back of any GRP panels then you can epoxy a small plywood pad in place and then screw or bolt onto that.
    We had a pair of eyebolts on the forward bulkhead fitted that way on our World and much of the loose stuff was attached to those with a lanyard.

    In some cases there maybe suitable re-inforcing blocks already moulded in place – check with the builders for where those are.

    There are 2 options if you cannot easily get to back of most of the GRP panels, and there is nothing already there.

    Epoxy a wood pad on the outside face – then screw into that. This works pretty well for things like anchor chocks. Remember roughen the gel coat thoroughly.

    Last resort is to drill a hole and back fill with epoxy – as much as you can force through – to build up a mass behind the grp that you can then screw into. Personally I would avoid this unless you really have no other choice.

    Hope that helps.

    #7507

    Roger,

    I too have a Hartley which I enjoy using for cruising, particularly on UKWA cruising events. There is no doubt that the smooth lines of our boats makes tying things in a bit more of a challenge! I don’t claim to have anything like all the answers, but on the basis of what I’ve done to date, I offer 4 things that may be helpful:
    1: My boat has jib tracks that are held on by bolts through the front benches. On each side I have fitted an ‘eye mount’ (Pinnel and Bax part R2849 will show you a picture) on one of the bolts underneath the bench. and I have threaded a length of shock cord through. I use this to hold the paddles up under the starboard bench, and all sorts of things on the port side.
    2: I have the anchor in a bucket under the front bench on the starboard side. This bucket is secured to the boat by a short line to the bush at the front of the toestrap. The anchor and its rope (should I say warp?) are held in the bucket by shockcord that is fixed to the bucket, criss crosse the top of it and postively clips on to the anchor. The fixed (standing?) end of the anchor rope is tied round the tabernacle.
    3: My boat has the optional stern ‘luggage box’. If I am planning to savour the delights of boat tenting (using a gloriously stylish Mk IV boat tent – yes – I am biased), I leave the luggage box at home, because there is then oodles of room for sleeping without the thwart causing too much difficulty. This means that I lose the luggage storage capacity, so I have drilled a couple of slots in the rubber blocks that Hartleys provide fixed to the transom as part of the holding down fittings for the luggage box. I then use straps threaded through these slots to secure drybags firmly against the transom.
    4: I put loads of drybags in the area under the foredeck. My preference is loads of smallish ones rather than a couple of whoppas – easier to pull in and out and to pull out just the bit you want. I have fixed a bit of rope (lanyard?) to the tabernacle which I thread through the handles of all the drybags and clip back on to itself. If we capsized my hope is that the drybags stay jammed under the foredeck, but if they make a bid for freedom. the lanyard will at least keep them tied to the boat.

    Final offer of help…..I have a photo that I am not willing to post on the forum, for fear of misleading people. I took it with the help of one of the many marvellous people at Hartleys (Tim actually). It shows one particular ‘inner hull’ with all its bits of wood attached…ie where you could screw fittings into that particular boat. It is even dimensioned with measurements from that particular transom. The photo has to come with some massive health warnings. It was one of the early boats, so before any transom scribe lines, and things will amost certainly have changed. Also, it is not your boat, it is very much my amateur photo, and it is in no way an official photo from the builder. If you want it on this basis, please send me a private message and I will happily send you the photo, just please please be fully aware I am not saying that your ‘bits of wood’ will be in the same place. It may, however, give you a hint where to look!

    Final point……I will have the Mk IV boat tent and my boat at this year’s UKWA cruising conference on 24th / 25th April. My experience is that the event is a very enjoyable and informative couple of days in the company of cheery Wayfarer sailors. All UKWA members are made very very welcome.

    Hope this helps. As with anything to do with a Wayfarer, there are umpteen ways to tackle any particular challenge, and I look forward to this thread revealing all sorts of things that we will all find useful!!

    Charles

    #7551
    Bob9255
    Member

    I have the anchor in a bucket under the front bench on the starboard side. This bucket is secured to the boat by a short line to the bush at the front of the toestrap. The anchor and its rope (should I say warp?) are held in the bucket by shockcord

    Sorry to change the direction of this thread, but it seems to have gone quiet anyway. I was interested in the above, as we’re considering getting an anchor for our boat. It would be used for day sailing on Windermere; so no tides to worry about, but it is a substantial body of water.

    I was initially leaning towards the folding grapnel type for ease of storage, but I’m not sure it would be up to the job. I would like to keep it as small and light as I can, and I’m now thinking of a 3.5 kg Britany anchor ( http://www.plastimo.com/catalogue/index.php?LangID=1&catid=5 ).

    I’d be grateful for advice from people with experience of anchoring Wayfarers. Would a folding grapnel be suitable? Any other recommendations? What weight does it need to be? Do I need a chain between the anchor and the warp and, if so, what is the minimum length needed?

    #7552
    Bob Harland
    Participant

    My experience of the folding grapnel is that grip is poor.

    2.5kg anchor plus 3m chain plus rope is generally considered okay for daysailing e.g.
    http://www.purplemarine.com/Product.aspx?ProductCode=16453
    This design will lay flat so is fairly easy to stow.
    For the length of warp 5x the depth of water you anchor in.

    Of course the holding power is very dependent on the nature of the sea/lake bed. If the bottom is rock or stone and the anchor cannot dig in then you are relying purely on the weight of the anchor and chain. So whilst the weight of the anchor is a factor the nature of the seabed is equally important.

    Something like the example above is fine as a “picnic” anchor, but a little light for overnighting in my view.
    We carry as a main anchor a 10lb plough – but handling this weight is more difficult.
    Whoever is going to do the anchoring/recovery must be able to comfortably lift the weight of the anchor plus chain.

    Hope that helps

    #7553
    Bob9255
    Member

    Thanks, Bob, for a quick & helpful reply.

    #7554
    matoi
    Member

    Hi everyone!

    I’d like to confirm that here on Adriatic we regard grapnel as a no-no. It doesn’t grip in mud, and likes to get stuck on rocky bottom. Though, some fisherman with small boats, carry something similar to a grapnel for temporary use – but it is a non-folding type, and the flukes are made of wire normally used for reinforcing the concrete structures. So if flukes get stuck in rocks, a hard pull will bend them, and the thing will free itself. So as mentioned – only for temporary use, and not Wayfarer friendly.

    The plastimo anchor (the first one, not the “grip” model) looks to me as something which might have difficulties catching a grip if it doesn’t fall on the bottom in perfect position. Might be wrong though but take a look at this thing:

    http://manson-marine.co.nz/SitePages/Supreme.htm

    I suppose they’ve put the ring onto the anchor just for that reason. Don’t miss to enjoy the sunny video of the Magellan Strait at the bottom of the page 😀

    Best regards to all!

    Mato

    #7555
    Swiebertje
    Participant

    I am quite happy with my aluminum Fortress anchor and five meters of chain. This combination proves the weight of the anchor is not important. Its digging capacity is far more important. But the most important part of the combination is the chain. It is the chain that ensures the anchor is pulled parallel to the sea bottom. Only then an anchor will dig in. I know a Aluminum Fortress is not the cheapest solution but it is by far the lightest.

    I used to own a grapnel, but I liked to call it “my dredge”, for that is the only useful purpose for a grapnel. I sometimes used it to retrieve the occasional bicycle from the harbor’s bottom. Do not make the mistake of calling a grapnel an anchor! It is not!
    Having said that I have to admit it can be used ashore on a rocky coast where it can be wedged between two rocks, but I rather use my rock pin for that purpose. A rock pin is much easier to stow away.
    For soft grounds (ashore), like the muddy clay we have over here in Friesland, I also carry two dog screws. They cost a pound or less and turn out to be perfect mooring pins. They do rust, but at that price I can afford new ones every year.

    Back to the original thread:
    I stow my anchor at the ready on the floor board. For that I have three purpose designed wooden blocks screwed and glued to the floorboard. Two of them protect my toes from the flukes. The flukes slide under these wood pieces and keep the anchor in place together with the third block that holds the shank. This third block has a groove to keep the shank in place. A small bungee prevents the anchor from leaving its stowed position. The anchor is at the ready in a less then a second by flipping the bungee cord and shifting it an inch forward. Obviously the whole thing is in a position where it does not bother the crew while sailing.

    The chain and anchor line are on a drum that rotates over a lengthened mast pivot pin. The drum and chain are restrained by a simple hook that is at the end of a small piece of rope. The piece of rope is tied through a small hole in the deck’s edge, just above the anchor drum.
    The drum itself is home made from two round pieces of plywood and a (square) plank as a center. The chain and line are freed by pulling the small rope until the hook appears. It is unhooked and it will then unwind at breakneck speed due to the chains weight, if not held by the crew. On the side of the tabernacle, opposite of the anchor drum. I have a big cleat to tie the anchor line to.

    #7562
    Smillie
    Member

    I notice some concern with regard to determining the position of plywood inserts in our boats. I have used one of those one-million candlepower torches to do this on a fibreglass boat by shining from inside to out and vice versa. It may be worth a try with the new Hartley boats.

    Regards,
    Dave Smillie
    W5308

    #7563
    matoi
    Member

    Smillie,

    Could you please shed some more light (not necessarily the whole million candle power) on what kind of torch you used and where did you get it? Also, what version of W did you inspect that way?

    I used on one occasion a cheap DIY-construction-building instrument called wire/stud locator. In “stud” mode you press it against a surface, calibrate with a small knob until it stops producing a sound, and then when you slide it around it will beep again if it finds a difference in material thickness. I don’t know how reliable and precise it is, but on that occasion it solved my problem. Your systems sounds better.

    Best wishes,

    Mato

    #7572
    Smillie
    Member

    Mato,

    Good to hear from you (we met at Brancaster in 2007). Hope you are well.

    The torch is just a fairly cheap high power thing I bought for about £10 at a garage in UK. It gives a high intensity beam (hence “1 million candlepower”). The point I was making was that although some materials (like GRP) are opaque to normal light levels, bright light will get through. I put the torch inside the rear buoyancy compartment and was able to trace with a pencil – on the outsde of the transom – the outline of the plywood reinforcement. Any bright light would do.
    Regards,
    David Smillie

    #7574
    matoi
    Member

    Hi Dave!

    I think I’m connecting the right face to the name! The Tidal Training remains in a very nice memory for me! I’m fine thanks, waiting to become father for the second time – so it will be a year with very little chances for W cruising for me. But hopefully next year will be back to what the previos two were like 🙂

    Thanks for the info, I intend to try your lamp idea, because I’d like to know whether there is any reinforcment under the floor just behind the thwart in my W… It will be a bit more tricky since it’s a World.

    I hope you are well too, and wish you lot’s of good sailing!

    Best regards,

    Mato

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