Latest News: Forums Technical Genoa sheet fairlead position on sidedeck

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 19 total)
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  • #4612
    David Stanford
    Participant

    I sail with the kids (day sailing, cruising) and am considering moving the genoa sheet fairlead from the forward benches to the side deck. I realise this is sacrilege, and would in many ways rather keep them in the more inboard position. But then with a crowded boat, clearing the benches is attractive.

    Does anyone have any thoughts as to the most efficient place for the fairlead if I move them to the sidedecks?
    It seems that I could put the fairlead just inboard of the shroud. This would better as the decks at that point are starting to curve inwards, so they can be more inboard. However, this is quite a way forward, and makes me think that it would not be such a good position when anything less that close hauled as the curve of the genoa will be tighter – will it back wind the main? But then the further aft on the side decks and the fairlead is increasingly outboard.

    I want to avoid ending up with a perforated sidedeck, so any accummulated wisdom would be appreciated. I would also welcome any other suggestions with respect to fairlead position, and could yet be persuaded not to make the move from the front benches.

    Thanks

    David
    W2216

    #11668
    tempest51
    Member

    David,

    Why ruin the sidedecks? I had the same thoughts as you a couple of years ago as I needed to make my crew more comfortable. Consider mounting Harken swivel base with alloy cleat (HK-H240) on each side of the thwart outside of where the side benches join the thwart. Even better glue and epoxy circular wooden bases first to lift off the benches then screw the swivel bases on top. I can tell you there is no difference to performance and it all looks tidy. Oh and you’ll need to plug the ugly holes on the forward benches.

    #11670
    Dave Barker
    Keymaster

    If you do decide to re-site the fairleads, make sure that your foresail will set reasonably well when close-hauled. With such a fundamental change of position as the one you’re proposing it may be difficult to get the leech anywhere near tight enough, assuming it sets correctly at present. (The boat won’t point as well either, but this probably isn’t your primary concern.) If your genoa won’t set well with the proposed rearrangement it may be possible to find a jib that works well. Alternatively you could raise the tack on a short wire strop to compensate for the higher fairlead, and you’ll gain a bit of visibility under the sail into the bargain. You’ll need to compensate at the other end of the halyard though, perhaps even needing to reposition your tensioning device (Highfield lever etc.)

    In my experience it tends to be the cleat rather than the fairlead that conflicts with crew comfort, and you could consider dispensing with the genoa sheet cleats altogether. With plenty of willing hands available there will always be someone to hold – and play – the sheets. It’s good to keep people busy and feeling involved in the sailing of the boat, but I admit that it’s nice to let the cleat take the strain sometimes.

    Fitting the genoa tracks (or stand-alone fairleads) on battens between/beside the bench slats might help?

    #11671
    Swiebertje
    Participant

    @Dave Barker wrote:

    Fitting the Genoa tracks (or stand-alone fairleads) on battens between/beside the bench slats might help?

    That has been done before. The track fits neatly between the planks. There are pictures around of boats with such an arrangement. (WIT or Google).

    Another way of bringing more comfort to the boat is taking the front benches out all together. Without the front benches the Wayfarer becomes a real roomy boat in the crew area. The Danes all do it. They use a barberhauler system to fix the Genoa sheet in the right spot. Maybe I should call it a negative barberhauler because it pulls the sheet outward (towards the leeward gunwale) while it is cleated at the windward gunwale, right next to the crew. They even have designed a nice in/out and forward backward control systems for the barberhauler. I am sure there are pictures available. You may want to try the SWS web site?

    On one Danish boat without front benches, I saw another solution. This boat had planks from below the thwart down to the floorboards with the Genoa tracks on them. The sheet eyes are moved up and down along these tracks bringing the same level of control as with our boats, with tracks on the front benches. The direction of pull is exactly the same.

    #11672
    Dave Barker
    Keymaster

    As a side note, if you do explore the Danish website you may find Google Translate falls a little short. Here’s a short excerpt talking about sheeting arrangements:-

    “In addition came trouble getting the deed to locate in frølåret violin block. Partly this was out of reach, and intended use of this frog legs that there was a row of large meat.”

    Thanks Google!

    #11673
    Swiebertje
    Participant

    ROFLCOPTER!
    You should try the Dutch translation!
    Oh, never mind, let’s keep this forum decent….

    #11674
    David Stanford
    Participant

    Thanks for the responses. Particularly enjoyed google’s Danish translation. I should perhaps have clarified that it is particularly seating space that I want to maximize – so removing the benches won’t really help in that respect. The problem with the current fairlead and cleat position (which is already between front bench slats, although could perhaps be lower profile) is that the bench space forward of the fairlead is not useable on the leeward side. However, I may still be able to live with that, and improve the arrangement a little.

    I’d still be interested in hearing on the matter of positioning on the side decks. If I were to do this, what are the best options?
    The forward position I am considering inside the shroud won’t (I don’t think) have the problem of not getting the leach tight enough as the downward angle will be similar – the fairlead would be higher, but also further forward. But has anyone positioned the fairlead in that area? And, as above, although that is probably the better side deck position for pointing higher, will it be a disadvantage when broader reaching, as with the sheet eased, the greater curve of the sail will be a tighter curve and therefore not a close enough parallel to the mainsail. That’s the hypothesis, but just wondered if anyone had experience of this – and any other thoughts on mounting them on the sidedecks.

    David

    #11675
    Dave Bevan
    Member

    Our MKII originally had fairleads on the side-deck, but we could never sheet the genoa as close as the main would allow and the fairlead was a pain in the ar$3 for the crew when hiking, literally.

    If you must, I’d add new fairleads and cleats, rather than moving them so you retain the inboard sheeting position for short-handed sailing. The sheeting angle can be helped by a barber-hauler.

    #11676
    Swiebertje
    Participant

    The magic word is: barberhaulers.

    #11677
    tempest51
    Member

    i can’t believe the plethora of solutions offered on this topic. No wonder that people are put off from sailing. Sailing is so simple in its basic principle, but somehow we have managed to create a monster and it’s the same monster that stops us smiling when we do sail. Take the offending existing devices off the front benches and get the crew to hold the sheet by hand, unless of course you plan to sail the Atlantic, in which case take a hammer and nail along. The main reason boats capsize is because of cleated jib sheets anyway! What a load of bulwarks!

    #11678
    Dave Barker
    Keymaster

    Never mind the bulwarks – cleats or no cleats there still needs to be a fairlead, and the sheet running from clew to fairlead seems to be the issue (or at least how to keep it out of the way).

    If you do a Google image search for “Wayfarer dinghy” you’ll quickly find numerous boats with the black “D” shaped fairleads on the outer aft edges of the foredeck just inside the shrouds. Sails cut to fit this arrangement won’t set correctly with bench mounted ‘leads and vice versa, at least not without a bit of tweaking, perhaps with strops and/or barberhaulers… Yes there will be a compromise in pointing and when reaching. Your choice.

    Another perfectly rational way to deal with this would be to sail without the genoa. No clutter, great forward visibility, poor performance. Again it’s a choice. If you want a fast boat, rig it like a racer, if you want a family cruising boat you’ll need to compromise somewhere. Maybe just persuade your crew to work around the boat’s systems.

    Rigging the mainsheet to the transom (“aft sheeting”) would be my choice to maximise space in the boat, incidentally.

    If a plethora of solutions really puts people off sailing, tempest51, then the Wayfarer isn’t the right boat for them – I don’t think I’ve seen two the same! But typically smiles all round in a W.

    #11679
    tempest51
    Member

    Don’t ever take up surfing Mr Barker.

    What I’m trying to suggest davidhs, is not to get too bogged down in the theory…the getting out there is the most important part of sailing. If you rig your genoa on the boat then pull the sheets back and you’ll find the position that you are aiming for, then mount whatever gear appeals. Good luck.

    #11683
    Colin Parkstone
    Participant

    How about running the sheet between the slats to a fairlead and cleat under the seat, sure we have someone in the class who can work out how to make that work well! CP

    #11691
    David Stanford
    Participant

    Thanks again for the posts. Barberhaulers is an interesting idea which I will think about – not thought of that. I am still undecided about whether to make the change. But that is all helpful as I weigh it all up. Already aft mainsheet btw which I am going to keep for the moment. And no problem with the multitude of ideas – getting the set up as I want it is at least part of the fun of it for me.

    David

    #19332
    fleetingcontact
    Participant

    For reasons relating to cruising and not racing, I would like to dispense with the front seats and thus would have to move the genoa fairlead / cleat position. I have read much on the cons of placing them on the side decks. I am not an expert…

    Does anybody have any serious objections to rigging things much the same way as a Wanderer, with the entire arrangement fixed to the thwart and not a traveller in sight?

    Also, I am intrigued by an earlier post by @Dave:

    “The Danes all do it. They use a barberhauler system to fix the Genoa sheet in the right spot…Maybe I should call it a negative barberhauler because it pulls the sheet outward (towards the leeward gunwale) while it is cleated at the windward gunwale, right next to the crew. They even have designed a nice in/out and forward backward control systems for the barberhauler. I am sure there are pictures available. You may want to try the SWS web site?”

    Yup, I looked at the website but am as confounded by the language difficulties as others seem to have been! Can anybody offer any translation help or find any pics from the site?

    …er…Swiebertje?

    Many thanks for any replies.

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