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  • #3897

    I have woodie 482 and am considering fitting a highfield lever or muscle box to achieve better genoa halyard tension. I would also like to use a genoa furling device. The boat is in solid condition, the mast is new and my genoa has a wire luff. Do I need to replace the genoa hayard with wire if I am going to use a tensioning device? Should I use a tensioning device at all with a woodie and (finally!) can high tension be used with a furling drum or is it a matter of chosing tensioning or furling in practice? I am mainly interested in cruising but would like to consider some not too competitive racing in the future.

    #8003
    Swiebertje
    Participant

    @alistairerskine wrote:

    I have woodie 482 and am considering fitting a highfield lever or muscle box to achieve better genoa halyard tension.

    – A highfield lever is only good for medium tension and has to be set while crew hangs from bow pulling the stay. It cannot be adjusted while sailing and watch your fingers!
    – A muscle box is a good and neat solution but it has lots of friction due to its eight sheave purchase. You have to subtract the friction from your pulling force.
    – Also consider a cascade system (on top of CB case). It only needs three sheaves for the same purchase as muscle box. It has less friction and is cheaper. Because it has less friction you don’t need to pull as hard to get the same rig tension.
    @alistairerskine wrote:

    I would also like to use a Genoa furling device. The boat is in solid condition, the mast is new and my Genoa has a wire luff. Do I need to replace the Genoa halyard with wire if I am going to use a tensioning device?

    Yes, normal poly rope isn’t strong enough (stretches too much) and dyneema wears too quick under high load.
    @alistairerskine wrote:

    Should I use a tensioning device at all with a woodie

    Yes, you need it for flattening the main and for pointing (minimise the sag in the Genoa’s luff). It is all about trimming your mast and sails, the material of your hull is not part of that equation.
    @alistairerskine wrote:

    and (finally!) can high tension be used with a furling drum or is it a matter of chosing tensioning or furling in practice?

    Only the Harken “high load” furler will furl reliably under load. All other furlers furl only after the tension has been removed. BTW furlers are useless for reefing the Genoa, see the reefing threads on this forum.
    @alistairerskine wrote:

    I am mainly interested in cruising but would like to consider some not too competitive racing in the future.

    1. Any sailor that meets another boat becomes instantly a racer. Sailors that call themselves racers only do it in a slightly more organized way with a starting gun and a finish line, other than that there isn’t much difference between cruisers and racers.
    2. Efficient sailing is something we all want, racing or not. But do not put your money in ‘over the top’ gadgets that may be beneficial only to the top five sailors of the country. (E.G. H-tracks, adjustable bridle ropes and such gadgetry).

    Ohw, you know those self adhesive tape measures you get for free from some chandlers? Do glue them on your boom, mast and hull, even if you have no clue what they are for. They will intimidate other racers and maybe give you an edge 😈

    #8004

    Many thanks for your ideas which have put me firmly on the right track. I will look at the cascade system in particular. Yes we are all natural born racers!

    #8011
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I’ve just fitted cascade system on my boat (wood with wooden mast).

    It’s great. With the wooden mast I’ve arranged it as on Laser 3000’s i.e. on the mast.

    Genoa halyard exits about 20cm above foot. So the hook picks up from sheeve box and the next block in the system is just below goose neck.

    The wooden mast doesn’t allow much space for the cascade system but I’ve managed to get enough tension. With an alloy mast you’ll have loads of space. Which is great because you’ll have lots of rope in the system to allow you to tension on all the foresails in your wardrobe.

    I’d recommend looking a cascade system ‘live’ as it’s easier to copy than a drawing.

    Another great thing about this system is you can see wear in the rope as nothing is hidden. Unlike a muscle box for example.

    Finally because it’s basically a rope and two blocks, you can easily adjust the length of rope to gain more tension if necessary.

    Sorry about rambling nature of post 🙄

    #8012
    Swiebertje
    Participant

    For an 8:1 purchase (same as 8 sheave muscle box) you need three blocks in a cascade.

    I find a cascade on the mast messy and it isn’t easy to lead the control line aft. On the mast it often interferes with the Cunningham control and/or the outhaul control specially when both have a block for dual control. IMHO a Genoa cascade sits much better on top of the CB case with the fixed ends on one side and the moving ends on the other side of the CB. The control line is easily moved aft by drilling a hole through the thwart support and adding a cleat to the slanted back side of the CB case. A flip block just aft of the cleat will allow tension control from either side of the boat, even from the hiked position.

    #8021
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    good points, I didn’t want to drill too many holes in my restored boat and also with a young family wanted to keep the cockpit as clear as possible.

    Maybe later I’ll start leading controls aft………………….we’ll see.

    T

    #8050
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Peter,
    Here is photo as requested.

    #8779
    Roger
    Participant

    Hi everyone, I’ve come to this thread a little late, but I have a question for Swiebertje(hope I’ve got that right)concerning the Harken High Load furling set up. Do you know what size or part number for the Wayfarer?

    Regards, Roger.

    #8780
    Swiebertje
    Participant

    Harken only has two types of small boat furlers. A standard one and, as Harken calls it, a “high load” type. If you Google on “Harken High Load furling/furler” you will get many hits, maybe even from your favorite chandler.

    Here is an example: http://shop.pinbax.com/index.asp?selection=detailed&uid=34333&itemtitle=Top%20Furler%20Hi-Load%20&%20Bottom%20furl%20drum%20hi-load

    By the way, I use an even stronger drum and swivel 😉 made by Bartels. That one only furls smooth under load. The Bartels system has been discussed in several Genoa reefing threads.

    #8783
    Roger
    Participant

    Thanks for getting back to me so promptly Swiebertje. I’m particularly looking for a furling system that will work well under high rig tension whilst racing, Between 325 and 350 pounds I think. Does the Bartel furling drum have this capability

    regards Roger.

    #8784
    matoi
    Member

    I think load on furling gear / luff wire is about 70 kg ( 150 lbs ).
    Shrouds are under tension similar to what you stated but that doesn’t influence furling of course.
    Cheers.
    Mato

    #8789
    Dave Barker
    Keymaster

    I don’t know if other people have noticed this, but the Harken top swivel no longer seems to be available separately; only with the drum, as a package.

    The “collapse load” for the Bartels furler and swivel is quoted as 20kN, which is effectively 2000kg.

    #8790
    Roger
    Participant

    Has anyone got any more details on the Bartels furling system for the Wayfarer? Part numbers, prices and supliers perhaps.

    #8791
    Swiebertje
    Participant

    The Bartels system is a reefing system, though you could use the drum and swivel without the rest and save some money. See a/o this thread: http://wayfarer.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=509&highlight=bartels.

    Somewhere I must have a detailed drawing and part list for the Bartels system. Unfortunately Uncle Al has not yet added it to the WIT site. Contact me off list and I’ll send you the files.

    The “Bartels” information is also available on the UKWA main web site and on Dave’s site (see links on WIT). The article was also published in W-News a couple of months ago. And finally; use this forums search function for more information on the Bartels system.

    #8792
    Bob Harland
    Participant

    It looks like you could order direct from Bartels, anyway they have prices online;
    http://www.bartelsgmbh.de/en/frameenglisch.html

    hope that helps
    bob

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