Latest News: Forums Cruising From racing to cruising……advice needed!

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  • #3771

    One of the deals when I persuaded Kathy that it would be a good idea to buy state of the art racing Wayfarer was that we could also do some cruising in it. I have also rashly agreed to take her parents sailing in Poole!

    I urgently need advice on how to make our Hartley racing suitable for cruising by the 18th August. For example:
    1. suitable cruising sails with reefing points
    2. jib furling gear
    3. outboard engine (we have an fitting for this attached to the transom)
    4. anything else you think we might need.

    Thanks
    Steve

    #7144
    W10143
    Member

    Steve

    Tight deadline! But I understand the pressure under which you are!

    Charles Ferrar is probably best placed to advise you as he has a cruising Hartley already; however for what it’s worth, here goes:

    1. suitable cruising sails with reefing points

    with a new boom you may already have in boom tackle for at least 1 reef, but 2 sets of reefing points on the main would be more than desirable.. your local sailmaker should be able to oblige, there was a discussion here http://wayfarer.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=459&highlight=reef
    regarding relative sizes. Various arrangements at the tack but you could adapt your cunningham by attaching a suitably sized SS Hook to it.
    I’m a long way away, but if you’re desperate I have a spare cruising main you could ‘lend’!

    2. jib furling gear

    Best tackle is Harken (High load) as you will have high halyard tension in a racing boat. You can use the Helyar reefing system with this to reef your Genoa (you will have a dangerously unbalanced boat if you try to sail with full genoa and reefed main) but it really doesn’t work until you’ve furled at least 4 turns (storm-jib size). You should make sure you have some method of preventing ‘forestay wrap’ when furling – either Disc on the halyard or triangle with hanks on the forestay.

    3. outboard engine (we have an fitting for this attached to the transom)

    2-2.5HP 2 or 4 stroke – New Suzuki 2.5 4 stroke street price £349 ish many use Honda 2.3HP slightly more expensive, but use anything that works!

    4. anything else you think we might need.

    definitely an anchor, folding grapnel will do but CQR or danforth better – the Alloy Fortress anchors are very light for their size but you must >=2m chain with any of them.
    A decent paddle, oh, and you may need to seal your stern flaps – ask Charles about this.
    A decent Rudder uphaul and downhaul with a safety kickup.

    I think that’s it – if anything else comes to mind I’ll post it!

    Good Luck
    David

    #7158

    Steve,

    Very willing to help with any advice/photos etc. My own view is that what you need depends on how far you are cruising, and in particular how far from a safe haven you are venturing. My personal view on the essentials are
    1 An anchor. I tie the end (is that the bittern end?) to the tabernacle and keep it in a bucket sort of under the front bench. For a while I tied a small loop of rope at the bottom of the forestay to use as a fairlead when the anchor was deployed, and simply tied the anchor off to the mast. I have now moved marginally upmarket, and have a single fairlead on the starboard side right beside the forestay, and a substantail cleat screwed to the starboard side of the tabernacle.

    2 A paddle. If becalmed, this can be very handy. I carry two.

    Moving up from this, I would strongly recomend:
    3 A mechanism for reefing. The current Hartley cruising boats come with a single rows of reefing points and with a reefing line within the boom. My sail happened to come with two rows of reefing points, so I have fitted a second reefing line within the boom. My guess is that Richard or Mark could sell you a Hyde cruising sail with reefing points at a competitive price. If you’d like photos of my reefing let me know.

    In theory when you reef the main you should reduce the size of the jib by a similar amount. I am aware that there has been at least one disaster where someone was sailing with two reefs in the main and a full size genoa. There are, however, people who sail quite quite happily with two reefs and no jib/genoa. Personally I currently have a furling jib. The fitting came with the boat, and it is not the world’s best quality. people say I shouldn’t be able to sail with it part furled, but it seems to work for me. When I have the second reef in I furl it down to ‘tea towel’ size, and with the first reef I have the jib out fully. So…whilst potentially it could cause a problem, I would happily set off in a boat with a jib and a single reef. having said all that, I have a spar for roller reefing, and now just need to buy a genoal with a bolt rope up the luff.

    4 Bits of shockcord! These should perhaps be on the essential list. Needed to tie in the provisions that are a key part of cruising……things like the thermos flask and the box with snacks in it. Nothing quite like heaving to and having a drink watching the world go by, or, as on an UKWA cruise this year, staring up at a mist covered Dunstanburgh Castle. Also needed to tie in the paddle and to stop the anchor falling out if you capsize!

    5 Some form of compass. For serious cruising you need something proper, but I’d suggest that as a minimum, you need something really simple which will tell you which way land is when the fog closes in all around you. One gets disorientated almost instantaneously, and something like a handheld compass used by hikers / walkers can take all the stress out of the situation.

    Optional extras:
    5 Outboard. Plenty of people (including Frank and Margaret Dye) choose not to have one and carry oars instead. I have chosen to have one because it can be jolly useful when the wind drops and there is limited prospect of it reappearing before the tide turns against you. I chose the Honda 2.3 with standard shaft, because I liked the fact that it is aircooled and thus has less parts to go wrong. This does make it slightly noisier, but I’m very happy with it and use it as little as possible. The only other point of note is that I reassembled the bracket so that it is angled slightly down rather than slighty up. This means the prop is lower in the water, and because our boats have such a slinky low transom, it still clears the transom when in the raised position.

    6 Transom flaps: My recommendation would be to leave them as they are unless you are sleeping in the boat. The lack of washboards on our boats means that when in amongst the waves they take on more water that the other designs of Wayfarer. With the self bailers and the transom flaps this doesn’t come close to being an issue. I recently slept in the boat, however, and for that occasion I sealed the flaps shut with silicone sealant and taped them over. Kept the water out nicely, but at one stage due to user error off the suffolk coast we shipped rather a lot of water (well over the centre board case) and it took the selfbailers quite a few minutes to get the water out. If the transom flaps had been open it wouldn’t have been an issue. My hope now is that I can make some flaps that can be opened and that can also be shut and made 100% watertight so that my slumbers are not interupted by dampness.

    7 Handheld VHF radio. Anyone will do. I like being able to listen to the coastguard’s forecast every 3 hours (maritime safety information broadcast), as announced on Channel 16 and broadcast on whichever channel they tell you to go to. It could also be useful for communicating with other boats or summoning help. In thgese days of DSC, however, there is, however, no longer a coastguard dedicated to listening to channel 16

    8 Boat tent: For when you get serious. I’ve tried an old Mk3 tent, and whilst it was sort of OK, I’d be inclined to ‘watch this space’ at Hartleys.

    Hope this helps, and hope you have fun.

    #7159
    Swiebertje
    Participant

    @charles-f wrote:

    5 Outboard. Plenty of people (including Frank and Margaret Dye) choose not to have one and carry oars instead.

    Those “oar, no motor” purists always seem to carry a long tow rope…..
    😉
    Now that I have mentioned a tow rope, isn’t that something that should be on everyone’s short list?

    Other items I carry depending on the type of cruise are:
    (Only items that were not mentioned by others and not in any particular order)

    – 1 Rock pin
    – 2 Dog screws
    – GPS (actually its a portable GPS/VHF-DSC that allows me to press a red distress button. It then automatically transmits my position through DSC).
    – VHF
    – 2 boat rollers (double as fenders).
    – 1 Kerosene Lantern for night sailing or anchor light or for inside the boat tent (Any other form of navigational lighting will do just as well).
    – 2 small beach chairs (to keep the crew happy)
    – Neoprene kuchens (also to keep the crew happy), they double as fenders.
    – Mast top or sail top flotation device.
    – Boom lift (helps to keep the tiller clear for motoring)
    – Liquor stash (for medicinal purposes only, obviously!)
    – Divers knife attached to the boat. (The type that is also capable of opening shackles)
    – Waterproof container(s) to keep valuables. Tied to the boat by a small string. (also a small waterproof container for the wallet, phone and glasses to take ashore).
    – Bucket (to bail the boat, clean the boat or provide relief for the crew^h^h^h^h^h^h to keep the crew happy).
    – 3 mooring lines
    – 3 Extra large cleats, one on the tabernacle, two on the rear bulkhead, just above the benches. The rear two double as fairleads for a try sail’s sheets. The try sail is my genoa (that has a bolt rope).

    #7160
    krgough
    Participant

    Interesting….

    As an avid Captain Aubrey and Maturin fan, I have been exposed to an inordinate amount of nautical terminology. From futtock shrouds to the loblolly boy – I thought I’d heard them all.

    But… (rot my vittles) I’ve never heard of rock pins and doggy screws.

    What are they????

    #7161
    Jim.Byers
    Member

    my suggestion is to attend the “ullswater holiday rally.” Day sailing from a camp site on the shores of ullswater.There will be every “W”from wood to world all with a host of crusing options to view before deciding which is best.If you do not have a tent the site has limited acocmmodation.or there is plenty of B&B. near by (leave your boat with the rest of us,mast up ready,)£4.50 per day for lake access.

    Jim.Byers.

    #7162
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    If you don’t want to compromise your crisp racing sails by putting reef points in them, and the budget allows, then consider insails.com. I bought a brand new main off them complete with tell tails, streamers, battens, reef points and bag for £355 and the quality is the talk of our sailing club!

    Here’s one listed on ebay…

    Clickie here…

    #7163

    Thanks for all your advice, guys. I have arrange to pick up some cruisting sails on loan from David Maynard next week and I am making a list of all the other things I need.

    We definitely need an outboard to get out through the Poole Harbour heads and our first target will be to sail to Studland.

    Meanwhile back to the racing… it looks like some breezy conditions at Waldringfield this weekend.

    Regards
    Steve

    #7167
    Dave8181
    Member

    @Steve Collins wrote:

    … I have also rashly agreed to take her parents sailing in Poole!…We definitely need an outboard to get out through the Poole Harbour heads and our first target will be to sail to Studland….

    There is plenty of excellent sailing to be done within Poole Harbour. Where you can go in the harbour will be limited if the tide is low – check the depth of water using the tide heights and a chart of the area. Poole harbour has a small tidal range, with a double high tide. See http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/coast/tides/south.shtml . The Harbour Authority website is here http://www.phc.co.uk/ .

    Some possible destinations include:
    – near the (disused) Pottery Pier on the West end of Browsea Island (take NT card or money for the landing fee if landing on Brownsea)
    – around Shipstal Point on the Arne peninsular
    – Harbour side of Studland peninsular
    See a diagram of the harbour here http://www.phc.co.uk/guide.htm . Danforth anchors work well in the harbour.

    @charles-f wrote:

    7 Handheld VHF radio

    You would need to have completed a VHF DSC training course and obtained your Short Range Certificate for this.

    Dave8181

    #7178

    We were stormbound in Lymington this week – the Lymington Town SC Regatta was cancelled with winds of 35-40 knots in the Solent. Even the youngsters in the Laser 4000 fleet didn’t go out (I haven’t seen such a young fleet since the Enterprises in the 1970s when I was one of them!).

    Anyway, our enforced time on the land gave us time to go the Nick Cox Chandlery and we bought:
    – brand new Suzuki water cooled engine (we were persuaded that it is not too much trouble to wash the engine out in fresh water after sailing)
    – anchor, 2 metre chain, and 20 metres of rope.

    We also had David Maynard’s cruising sails (collected from his brother’s house in High Wycombe, having been transported there from Wakefield) so thought we would practice setting them up on shore. We made the classic ‘pigs ear’ of this, until one of the old salts at Lymington showed us how to do this properly.

    We already have:
    – TacTic racing compass which we can set to normal compass mode
    – Jib furling grear (unknown make) which seems to work OK.

    So we are all set for cruising at Poole in a couple of weeks. We have five star accommodation booked with my sister, so will not need to follow Charles’ advice about taping up the transom flaps!

    Once again, thanks for all your advice.

    Steve

    #7180
    Dave Bevan
    Member

    – brand new Suzuki water cooled engine (we were persuaded that it is not too much trouble to wash the engine out in fresh water after sailing)

    We also opted for the little Suzuki, and although we didn’t need to use it in anger, it performed well when we ‘tested’ it between Bosham and Itchenor last week, and pushed us along at around 3-4kts at very low revs.
    Washing out was no problem, I clamped it to the workmate, and used one of those large garden buckets you get from the garden center, but make sure you keep the shear-pin safe if you remove the prop’ – it’s absence led to an unexplained lack of drive when we first used it, followed by a trip to a Suzuki dealer 😳

    #7212
    Swiebertje
    Participant

    @kgough wrote:

    Interesting….

    As an avid Captain Aubrey and Maturin fan, I have been exposed to an inordinate amount of nautical terminology. From futtock shrouds to the loblolly boy – I thought I’d heard them all.

    But… (rot my vittles) I’ve never heard of rock pins and doggy screws.

    What are they????

    Shiver me timbers laddy!

    A rock pin is a galvanized steel pin with a ring at the end. It is used to tie a line to and then slide it in some crevis behind a rock. It is very useful when cruising a rocky coast. The boat is moored between such a pin (ashore) and an anchor (in the water). The Swedes and Danes commonly use this method at the (rocky) Swedish West coast.

    A dog screw is available for a just a few quid in an animal shop. Normally they are used to attach a dog line to so a dog can play on a lawn in a limited circle. They are cheap and can be used as reliable mooring pins in soft grounds. They are also useful in the dingy park to secure a boat on its trolley before the Autumn gales and storms. Two lines connect the shrouds with these screws and prevent the boat from being blown of its trolley.

    #7216
    krgough
    Participant

    Har-har – splice the jolly-boat – thank you for the explanation.

    I’ll go back to whittlin’ my spare wooden leg…

    #7275

    Here’s the evidence that we succeeded in converting our Hartley Racer into a cruising version for the UKWA Poole Rally. Note the cruising sails kindly lent by David Maynard and the Suzuki outboard on the transom – both worked really well during the week. And I took my Mother-in-Law for a sail around the bay.

    Thanks to Barbara Browning for the Photo.

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