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  • #4621
    Geof
    Member

    Happy new year

    In the national Championships and Poole Week why do we have so many discards? 2 in each case when everyone is at the venue.
    In the case of Poole Week the 2nd discard has changed the result in the last 2 years.
    in 2012 Brian Lamb should have won but I scraped in on count back only after the 2nd discard kicked in to save me from my own stupidity.
    In 2013 the result was reversed in Brian’s favour as a result of the 2nd discard. I felt Brian should have won in 2012 and we should have won last year but the discards changed both events (one all – looking forward to 2014)

    Fortunately Dave Wade won the 2013 Nationals by enough for the discards not to affect the result.

    I have sailed in keelboat regattas where there are NO discards which saw a lot more boats doing turns rather than risk DSQ.

    What are discards really for at major events? They have a different role in club series and I am not inviting discussion on that subject in this post.

    Is it time to consider less or none?

    What do others think/ Just because ‘Its always been like this’ does not mean it should continue without debate.

    #11704
    Colin Parkstone
    Participant

    How about double points last race, that would be a game changer as I would have been second in Poole Week even having sailed a rubbish week !!!!

    Good point about the turns and DSQ,

    So why do we have two discards, do the rules say so from the RYA or ISAF.

    I would not want to have no discards if it was a two race day regatta, say you broke your mast in the first race of the day. You then get a chance if you do well in all the other races to still do well overall. If no discards and it happened on the first day, may as well go home and not bother to find a mast or have a spare in the first place,

    It cost a lot to enter, find accommodation and take the time off from work and the family and your not get many doing that with no discard!! Not Me!

    So for me, try Double points last race so you have to sail all the races but two discards if your having two races a day.

    #11705
    Dave Bevan
    Member

    @Colin Parkstone wrote:

    I would not want to have no discards if it was a two race day regatta, say you broke your mast in the first race of the day

    it might encourage you to sail within the limits of the boat/rig/crew/rules for the whole regatta?

    #11706
    Colin Parkstone
    Participant

    I have only my limits to sail to, if the boat or rig do not keep up with me then I will get a new rig or boat!!!

    My crews are much better than me so they have to wait for me sometimes and as for the rules, i am still trying to learn them!

    I take it that you were pulling my rigging? Have a good season!! 😆

    #11708
    Dave Bevan
    Member

    @Colin Parkstone wrote:

    I take it that you were pulling my rigging? Have a good season!! 😆

    It certainly wasn’t aimed personally at you Colin, apologies if it came across that way 😳

    Seriously though, I can see pro’s and con’s for 1 or 2 discards, but wouldn’t advocate none.

    The summer Wednesday series at our club has 22 races, with only 7 to count 😯 In theory, you could compete in three different boats (or for lasers, 3 different rigs).

    #11709
    Colin Parkstone
    Participant

    All Cool in my boat Dave!!!

    Can I ask why so few discards and how many turn out for the series, I could see that you may get a hot shot winning very time and still do little for the class turnouts.

    We do 50% rounded up, not asking to much to do half the races sailed is it … and we have two average points in a series to either use for an Open at a weekend or a Championship if a Wednesday night or a rescue boat duty we all do.

    Average turnout for Wayfarer Fleet Start last year, 13 on Wednesday night and about the top 8 did the minimum 50%. Best year for a long time.

    CP

    #11710
    Geof
    Member

    I am setting myself up for a catastrophe at Weymouth with these public statements. 😳 😳
    If you lose your mast due to a collision (and you were innocent) then you are entitled to redress.
    if you have any other breakage that stops you competing then tough!
    At the 2013 nationals there were 4 races on the first day so anyone having serious gear failure in the first race would have been out of luck with the 2 discards.
    Why I think it needs changing is if 2 boats finish all races in a series then the one with the lowest TOTAL points score sailed better overall but may not win once discards come in to play.

    This only applies to short regattas not club series.

    #11711

    Good discussion – but I am definitely in favour of keeping at least one discard in place for championship. It’s too much pressure to know that one bad race can ruin your week.

    The provisional NoR for the Euro Champs specifies one discard for the gold fleet and two discards for the Silver and Bronze fleets (to reduce the pressure on them a bit).

    I did have a thought that we could have a gold race like they did at the Olympics with the top 10 entrants on Friday competing in an additional race for double points off Nothe Fort, while the rest of us watched.

    Steve

    #11712
    Colin Parkstone
    Participant

    Oh!! Yes please. That would be a good extra to go for to round off the week, 🙂
    How many races are you thinking of each day Steve, I still think two is the best option if we have eight or ten plus races. CP

    #11713

    Have you guys not checked out the NoR yet? http://wayfarer.org.uk/racing/europeans/nor/

    The plan is to go for two races per day like 2010 so target of 10 races.

    Steve

    #11715
    admin
    Member

    Please; no Micky Mouse races under the Nothe, and no double pointers either. That crazy concept was dreamt up to appeal to spectators and a television audience of people who do not understand sail boat racing. Revenue from spectators and tv was important to the organisers to defray the huge costs of staging the Olympics. It is really not necessary or desirable for our event, so my vote is for the tried and trusted. It ain’t broke, so don’t fix it.

    #11718
    Colin Parkstone
    Participant

    Not a good look Steve, it say Provisional, not Final so you could change it and I could then get more confused than I am already!!!
    I just looked for the pricing and when I need to enter for now and pass this on to the sailors in the black hole which is Parkstone!!!!

    As for Mickey Mouse races I would not mind having a go at the double points last race, it could change things lots for anyone not keeping up a good series with a bad last race, ask the French sailor in the 2012 Finns who won the last race and jumped into Bronze Medal position.
    Only point about the rest watching, not sure you would get back to land and up onto the Nothe before the race started but it could happen in the harbour in front of the centre???

    We could see Mike and Dave having a good old match race while the rest of us also ran stole the chocolates 😮
    Then Again!!!!
    CP

    #11719

    Just tell the fleet to enter at or before the Dinghy Show on 1st/2nd March to qualify for the best deal. We are in the process of finalising the bank account details so that UK entrants can pay by electronic transfer or a good old fashioned cheque.

    Steve

    #11776

    I agree with Steve….. One discard seems fair enough. More than that makes it complicated.
    Any more than one discard feels lie encourages people to take flyers and chances.
    No discard can penalise all sorts of unforseen circumstances!
    Trevor

    #11864
    Geof
    Member

    Well the Euros Final NOR has now changed it to 2 discards so I was wasting my efforts.

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