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  • #4623
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hello all

    I have a question which as been puzzling me, but to which there’s probably a very simple answer! Grateful for any ideas or advice.

    This year we started to use a small outboard with our Mk1 Wayfarer as we now sail it in an area with strong tidal streams. We mount the engine directly onto the transom and there it stays until required. The times we have needed it, we’ve been glad it was mounted already as it’s there and ready to use, rather than wrestling to attach it from within the boat, so we don’t want to change this arrangement.

    The problem we have is that there is insufficient clearance between the aft end of the boom and the outboard. In light airs this is no problem as you can simply lift the boom over the outboard as you tack/gybe. In stronger winds this isn’t an option and we’ve had to resort to the undesirable tactic of partially scandalizing the main for the whole of our time on the water (using the clew reefing line) in order that the boom can pass unimpeded over the outboard.

    With a program of work on the boat this winter before some more serious cruises next summer, I’m keen to get this sorted but have no idea how to! The (fixed) gooseneck is in line with the mast band and when hoisted this sees the sail at the very top of the mast, so there is no space to move the gooseneck upwards, or to put a sliding gooseneck above the fixed one (I had been hoping this might be an easy solution). I suppose that buying an engine mount would see the engine sit lower, but I’d rather avoid this and the associated work if possible. I assume that there must be a solution as the Wayfarer book says it’s fine to mount the engine on the transom, and outboard (Yamaha Malta) isn’t particularly big. But I can’t work it out…..

    Any advice gratefully received!

    Cheers
    Dave

    #11724
    Colin Parkstone
    Participant

    Is the engine a long shaft?
    Have you a standard length leach mainsail ?
    ( A standard length leach mainsail will have the boom looking parallel to the sheer of the boat when looking from the side of the boat)
    Is the mast set at the correct rake, 23ft 6in from head to transom. See Class Tuning guide for more information.
    Transom brackets will do a better job with them being lower, all the backing plates and stiffeners can be got at inside the back tank!

    #11725
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Thanks Colin, I’ll check the leach and the rake; hadn’t thought of that.

    #11726

    Traveller, I have the same arrangement, which I like for all the reasons you give, and a similar engine. We get exacly the same problem! The boom is about an inch too low to miss the motor. Colin’s dead right, but in our case the mast set up has all been properly checked and my mainsail is a completely standard signed racing sail. Yes its old, but it can’t have stretched that much. (can it?)

    The rake and leach are worth checking even if they don’t solve the problem, but in Delphy with her ex-racing dual controls, you can easily solve it by releasing the kicker before the tack, and banging it straight back on again afterwards. This might be a pain if you are tacking frequently and/or in a boat where the kicker isn’t easily to hand. If you are more off the wind and running I gather its best to have the kicker off, anyway especially before gybing. So, if it still bangs with mast and leech correct, kicker might be your next port of call before transom works are called for

    Interestingly once we put our reefs in the boom end is about 2 inches higher and misses the motor handle every time with no adjustments needed.

    Hope this helps – that boom on motor banging is somehow quite distressing …

    Boris Delphy W6330

    #11727
    Colin Parkstone
    Participant

    An Idea! How about an eye, 4in or so up the leach from the boom which could take a small reef with the right line going through it to hold it in place.
    Your then lift the boom up away from your engine but not reef the main as much as a full slab!
    Or have the foot re cut with the leach shortened more than the luff and have reefs put in at the same time.
    CP

    #11728
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Thanks guys, I haven’t checked yet but suspect that my leach is also the standard length. Also, looking at the transom brackets, I’m not sure that they would drop the overall height of the engine by much. I like the idea of the tiny reef; how do you think this would affect the performance of the sails?

    #11729
    Colin Parkstone
    Participant

    Very little, in fact it would be better as your not keep catching the boom on the engine and that will be worth lots in reduced worry!

    #11730
    Swiebertje
    Participant

    Just some things that spring to mind: The boom also goes down if the outhaul isn’t taut. Or if the gooseneck is too high, in case you have a sliding one. Did you hoist your sail all the way up the the black band? Best solution: a removable outboard bracket, tailored for the W. It moves the engine further back, clearing the rudder and the main sheet. The motor is well out of the way even when tilted up.

    #11732
    PeterW3035
    Member

    @Swiebertje wrote:

    Best solution: a removable outboard bracket, tailored for the W. It moves the engine further back, clearing the rudder and the main sheet. The motor is well out of the way even when tilted up.

    +1 on the above, however with a loose main sheet it’s still interesting particularly when you jibe and get the main sheet wrapped around the outboard 😳

    I have an 3.3hp Mariner and resolved to rotate the motor through 90 degrees when not engaged to reduce the overall height above the bracket/transome and hopefully avoid the catching problem. Taking up the slack in the main before a tack/jibe also helps massively, when you remember 🙄

    #11734
    nickgiles
    Participant

    Hi,
    If you go down the detachable bracket route you may wish to consider the dimensions of the board that the motor is mounted on. The black “plastic” mount supplied with the boat seemed too tall at 27cm and it was a struggle to keep the cavitation plate on the motor deep enough. So I made a wooden mount about 21.5cm tall and this seems to suit. The motor sits lower, the cavitation plate is deep enough and the main sheet sheet doesn’t get tangled up with the motor.

    Good luck,
    Nick Giles LizzieB 9922

    #11736
    Swiebertje
    Participant

    @nickgiles wrote:

    Hi,
    If you go down the detachable bracket route you may wish to consider the dimensions of the board that the motor is mounted on. The black “plastic” mount supplied with the boat seemed too tall at 27cm and it was a struggle to keep the cavitation plate on the motor deep enough. So I made a wooden mount about 21.5cm tall and this seems to suit. The motor sits lower, the cavitation plate is deep enough and the main sheet sheet doesn’t get tangled up with the motor.

    I have a smaller 36mm plywood plate too (actually two 18mm plates glued together). I have seen that high plastic plate too but I though it was mounted upside down? Maybe it is intended for a long shaft engine? But now that you mention it I have seen a sawn plastic plate somewhere.

    Anyway, like you say, keeping the sheet out is easy with the motor almost touching the transom when tilted, just take the sheet in some while gybing. It is a trick easy learned.
    And if it then still wraps around the engine tie some loose bungee cord to the block floating in mid air, atop the bridle. The rubber will pull the sheet slightly forward when it is eased, ensuring the sheet passes in front of the engine.

    I have two six inch mooring cleats attached to the front face of the aft bulkhead, just above the benches. (A +S has a MKI aft tank). They not only provide strong mooring and towing points, but they are also perfect fixing locations for the bridle on long cruises. In other words you can also bring the entire main sheet rig forward. The only down side is that you are not allowed to race with such a set-up.

    #11738
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Thanks all, this is extremely helpful. One further question, which risks taking things off topic slightly but is still related, so here goes (and apologies if it’s a silly question but all this is new to me);

    I’ve started to look at the mast rake to see if that’s contributing to the problem. I noticed that due to the position of the aft clovis pin in the mast track, the mast heel butts against this at a point which means that the mast is not directly in line with the tabernacle. If I moved the clovis pin back one hole, the mast could come forward a little and would then be directly in line with the tabernacle, which might also give me some more clearance between the aft end of the boom and the engine.

    But how do I know the optimum position for the clovis pin? The Wayfarer book isn’t clear on this, saying only ‘pull the mast backwards so the heel of the mast is hard up against the aft pin of the foot track’. But what position should the aft pin be in?

    Hope all that makes sense! Any views?

    Thanks again

    Dave

    #11739
    Swiebertje
    Participant

    Once you are done setting up the mast the clevis pin (or bolt in my case) is placed in such a position that the mast pivot pin rattles free in its holes. If the pivot pin is somehow jammed in the hole the mast and/or the tabernacle will damage. Obviously you cannot put the clevis pin exactly right, but you need to find the next best position and then fine tune by putting some tuppence between the clevis pin and the mast.
    Have look here or here for the set-up procedure.

    #11740
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Thanks. Sorry, I might not have been clear enough but I’m talking about the clevis pin that goes across the mast foot track (i.e. the pin across the aft end of the foot track which the foot of the mast stops against), rather than the mast pivot bolt.

    #11741
    Swiebertje
    Participant

    Use the clevis pin position (and maybe a few coins) in the mast foot track to free the mast pivot pin.
    But do this last, AFTER you have set-up all other mast trimmings.
    The links provided in my previous post describe in detail how to do it.

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