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  • #3513

    Does anybody have experience with the World Asymmetric Spinnaker? I have no problem launching or flying mine but the recovery rarely works as I feel it should. I have rigged it as per the diagram in the wayfarer book (as clear as that is) but either the pole jams on the way back in (I have learnt to release the pole slew lines) or more often the sail jams in the chute. Is this a normal experience or is the rigging diagram in the book misleading? The problem appears to be that the sail recovery line goes out to the port side and attaches to the port side of the sail – thus the sail bunches as it comes down and jams in the chute rather than feeding smoothly. Does any one have any suggestions?

    #5350
    W10143
    Member

    Adrian

    I had an asymmetric made by my sailmaker when measurements were difficult to get…:-{ however, he did an excellent job, and also rigged a ‘double downhaul’, which seems to work most of the time, only jamming once (and causing a small rip which repaired easily).

    David

    #5355

    David

    Thanks. By double downhaul do you mean the down haul is attached to both sides of the sail or two points on the same side? If so where are those points. My feeling is that for a port recovery the downhaul needs to be on the inside (starboard) side of the sail which it currently is not. Which side is you downhaul secured on the sail and do you recover to port or stbd of the forestay?

    Adrian

    #5359

    David

    I would be interested to know who made the assymetric for you.

    I would like to rig up a very simple assymetric for cruising, but my idea at the moment is for something more of a ‘cruising chute’ recoverable into the cockpit. One option is to see if there is another class of dinghy which has an assymetric which might be around the right size and then source a used on, or alternativel get a sailmaker to make something suitable.

    Perhaps I should start a new thread asking if anyone else has tried anything like this!

    Jonathan
    W8866
    Dumdum

    #5361
    W10143
    Member

    Adrian

    By double downhaul do you mean the down haul is attached to both sides of the sail or two points on the same side? If so where are those points.

    There is a cringle in the centre closer to the luff with a loop on the other side of the sail closer to the leech. The downhaul is passed up through the chute, through the cringle and attaches to the loop; this effectively doubles the sail when hauled, bringing it down folded. It recovers to either side, depending on where the downhaul is reeved.

    and Jonathan

    I would be interested to know who made the assymetric for you.

    Neil Thornton of No 1 Sails of Middlestown, sadly now defunct as Neil is now making Micro Caravans somewhere in North Yorkshire!

    David

    #5363

    @W10143 wrote:

    Adrian

    By double downhaul do you mean the down haul is attached to both sides of the sail or two points on the same side? If so where are those points.

    There is a cringle in the centre closer to the luff with a loop on the other side of the sail closer to the leech. The downhaul is passed up through the chute, through the cringle and attaches to the loop; this effectively doubles the sail when hauled, bringing it down folded. It recovers to either side, depending on where the downhaul is reeved.

    and Jonathan

    I would be interested to know who made the assymetric for you.

    Neil Thornton of No 1 Sails of Middlestown, sadly now defunct as Neil is now making Micro Caravans somewhere in North Yorkshire!

    David

    Sadly I seem to be missing a cringle! The sail is as supplied by Porters (from two years ago), although made by Jeckells of Norfolk, with the loop on the port side on the forward half of the sail. Is there a recognized design/pattern; as one person I met thought my asymmetric was different in shape from his?

    But thank you for your help so far.

    Adrian

    #5366
    matoi
    Member

    Adrian, Jonathan

    I also have an asymmetric made by Jeckells/Porters but found no trouble using it last year (used it thou only in light winds).

    But just about two weeks ago Ralph Roberts and I discussed it with regards to cruising and made a little experiment. We wanted to free up the space under the foredeck for cruising gear but still use the asymmetric. So we rigged a system for hoisting it from the cockpit. Rather than having one line work as halyard+tack+pole extender we had a separate line for each task.

    The procedure for hoisting went something like this:

    1. With the sail in the cockpit, crew ties the sail corners to respective lines (halyard, sheets and tack line which is brought into the cockpit over the foredeck (and over the sheet 😉 )
    2. Crew pulls the tack line (which runs thru the pole into the cockpit) and thus pulls the tack of the sail across the foredeck to the tip of the pole
    3. Helm hoists the sail via the halyard
    4. Crew loosens the tack line a bit and at the same time pushes/pulls the pole out of the bow with a pole pushing line (sorry for my bad English)
    5. Both helm and crew smile happily

    The procedure for lowering the sail went like this:

    1. Crew loosens the tack line (a lot) – the sail looses its shape and driving force, so
    2. Crew grabs the foot of the sail and collects it towards the clew
    3. Helm starts lowering the sail via the halyard while crew collects the sail into the cockpit
    4. Crew pulls the pole inboard with the dedicated inboard-pulling-line and stores the sail

    Although Ralph and I think that some more experimenting and perfecting is needed, we feel that this is a better arrangement for cruising. Particularly because hoisting and lowering of the sail can be done in easy stages with less strain on the sail.

    It would be great to hear anyones comments on this.

    Best regards,

    Mato
    W10435

    P.S. During this experiment, for sake of simplicity, we’ve put the pole-swinging-control-lines out of order. But I would be very happy if someone could present the theory behind this sideways movement of the pole. THNX

    #5367

    Mato

    That sounds interesting, I shall have to give it some thought as I agree that, when cruising, space up front is at a premium. However, when you launched through the chute which side did you launch to – port or starboard?

    I understand the swing of the pole is to alter the apparent wind angle and thus allow slightly better downwind sailing angles.

    Adrian

    #5369
    matoi
    Member

    Adrian,

    With the original setup (throu the chute) – I launched it and lowered always on port side. I did it so because downhaul is attached on port side of the sail, and it seemed important in keeping the sail from falling into the water when lowering.

    With new setup (from cockpit) – I do not use a downhaul line (the crew collects the sail by grabing the sail itself). Therefore it is possible to lower the sail on either side, also irrespective to which side it was hoisted.

    Regarding the pole swing – do we want to swing it to windward or to leeward?

    Thnx

    Mato
    W10435

    #5370

    Mato

    To windward, as that increases the wind angle of attack. The genoa will shield the sail if you swing it to leeward (you can fly both at the same time I am told, especially when reaching).

    Adrian

    #5371

    Matoi

    Many thanks for your description of your experiment – that’s pretty much what I would like to do but I am wondering if I can make it even simpler by attaching the tack to the front of the bow fitting (by having a small pulley block on the front of the fitting through which a line can be lead back to the cockpit) and therefore not having a pole. I would take down the jib/genoa before hoisting and have the assymetric in the cockpit with all lines attached ready to hoist. I defintely do not want to add either a pole or a chute to my boat. This is only a theoretical idea in my head and I dont know if it will work in practice.

    I would be interested to know whether the sail you used was a standard wayfarer assymetric? or was it something custom made?

    Jonathan
    W8866 Dumdum

    #5373
    matoi
    Member

    We did try sailing it without the pole extracted and with genoa furled. It seemed not to work until we popped the pole out. It is a standard asymmetric. Perhaps you should consult one of the sailmakers and ask them about the prerequisites for flying the thing without the pole. Maybe a differently cut sail would behave better.

    Best regards,

    Mato

    #5388

    An asymetric spinny designed for the Wayfarer would need the pole extended in order to get the correct tension on the luff edge. If you have your own made, then you could get it to attach to the bow plate. Take a look at the various RS boats: the luff doesn’t want to be tight like a jib, but it is not as loose as the windward edge of normal kite would be.

    If just attaching to the bow plate, you may need to drop / furl the jib, or else it wont get any wind; but the distance mast to bow must be about the same as say an RS200 or RS Vareo mast to end of bowsprit – so it should work OK. On our 29ft cruiser, we have a cruising chute (asymetric kite) that attaches to the bottom of the forestay fitting. We use a “down-haul” to adjust how tight the luff is, and also it allows you to let the tack out and try to get the kite to float to windward, and thus allowing you to bear away a bit further.

    #5389

    Just picking up on the point about the luff length of an assymetric designed for a wayfarer. Do they hoist on the halyard for a conventional (symetrical) spi or do you add either an additional halyard or maybe just a block on the front side of the mast?

    Jonathan
    W8866 Dumdum

    #5391
    W10143
    Member

    Hi Jonathan

    Do they hoist on the halyard for a conventional (symetrical) spi

    Yes

    David

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